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Old 01-01-20, 14:53   #31731
matrix54
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Ada’s death works in the original because the games builds up to it across two games. We get more time to know Ada, who she is, what she wants, the truth, etc. Even if you played RE1, Ada still keeps her allure.

She sticks to her story - she’s trying to find her boyfriend. She’s also humanized before the spy reveal, and Leon and Ada look after one another several times, especially after she’s wounded by a monster. The two spend a lot of time together. She even helps Leon kill zombies. We later learn that Ada is a spy, and Ada threatens to kill Leon for the sample. After her death, we learn that she doesn’t actually want to kill him. It’s a nice play of the two - Ada learns to trust Leon. Leon grows to distrust Ada. Her death is a slow burn in both scenarios.

The same behavior is moved forward in RE4. Wesker deliberately tells Ada to kill Leon. She never does.

In the remake, Ada flat out lies to Leon the entire time and Leon buys it. Towards the end, Ada is forced to trust Leon or else she’d die but it doesn’t feel natural. They don’t get a lot of screen time together like the original. We don’t know Ada’s feelings toward Leon until the very end. She just throws him a rocket launcher. The remake lacks a lot of patience and subtlety, especially for Ada. Annette just tells Leon she’s a spy and Leon tries to kill her.
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Old 01-01-20, 15:00   #31732
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The remake lacks a lot in terms of character and story. Very ironic.
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Old 01-01-20, 15:16   #31733
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Originally Posted by matrix54 View Post
Ada’s death works in the original because the games builds up to it across two games. We get more time to know Ada, who she is, what she wants, the truth, etc. Even if you played RE1, Ada still keeps her allure.

She sticks to her story - she’s trying to find her boyfriend. She’s also humanized before the spy reveal, and Leon and Ada look after one another several times, especially after she’s wounded by a monster. The two spend a lot of time together. She even helps Leon kill zombies. We later learn that Ada is a spy, and Ada threatens to kill Leon for the sample. After her death, we learn that she doesn’t actually want to kill him. It’s a nice play of the two - Ada learns to trust Leon. Leon grows to distrust Ada. Her death is a slow burn in both scenarios.

The same behavior is moved forward in RE4. Wesker deliberately tells Ada to kill Leon. She never does.

In the remake, Ada flat out lies to Leon the entire time and Leon buys it. Towards the end, Ada is forced to trust Leon or else she’d die but it doesn’t feel natural. They don’t get a lot of screen time together like the original. We don’t know Ada’s feelings toward Leon until the very end. She just throws him a rocket launcher. The remake lacks a lot of patience and subtlety, especially for Ada. Annette just tells Leon she’s a spy and Leon tries to kill her.
Oh yes this is true. I prefer the OG Ada's death as well, in the A scenario.

I should add that Ada's death in OG RE2 and Remake 2 both evoke a different feeling. Just like you said, in the remake it seemed as if Ada was just using Leon the entire time while in the original that detail was more subtle and it seemed as if Ada was really losing focus on her mission bc of her "feelings" to Leon. Even then I still think Ada's death scene had an impact in the remake version, not the same kind of emotional impact of the original just different if you know what I mean since it was written to be, it was deliberately made to be different. I still would like to know why Capcom decided it was a good choice to cut John out of RE2 remake. I would like to have answers to that, I really don't find it game breaking that the references to him were cut but I would like an explanation or a rationale as to why.
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Old 01-01-20, 16:15   #31734
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The remake lacks a lot in terms of character and story. Very ironic.
I thought Leon's campaign was the more lacking of the two which I think is down to Leon's voice actor plus he hardly meets anyone during his campaign which makes it feel as lifeless as the zombies in the RPD.

Claire's campaign is much better IMO Claire's voice actor is better than Leon's plus she meets more people than Leon so her campaign feels far less lifeless than Leon's.

My only dislike apart from Claire not finding out much about her brother is that she never got to go into the gun shop, the scene in the gun shop would have been better had it been Claire and not Leon.
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Old 01-01-20, 16:59   #31735
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I agree. Overall I always thought Clare was the more central character due to her reasoning for being there connecting with Chris. I feel like they wanted to push for Clare to be the more central character but and Leon, for once, feels pushed out. I do feel the game needed a bit more development time personally.
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Old 01-01-20, 17:27   #31736
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Originally Posted by matrix54 View Post
Ada’s death works in the original because the games builds up to it across two games. We get more time to know Ada, who she is, what she wants, the truth, etc. Even if you played RE1, Ada still keeps her allure.

She sticks to her story - she’s trying to find her boyfriend. She’s also humanized before the spy reveal, and Leon and Ada look after one another several times, especially after she’s wounded by a monster. The two spend a lot of time together. She even helps Leon kill zombies. We later learn that Ada is a spy, and Ada threatens to kill Leon for the sample. After her death, we learn that she doesn’t actually want to kill him. It’s a nice play of the two - Ada learns to trust Leon. Leon grows to distrust Ada. Her death is a slow burn in both scenarios.

The same behavior is moved forward in RE4. Wesker deliberately tells Ada to kill Leon. She never does.

In the remake, Ada flat out lies to Leon the entire time and Leon buys it. Towards the end, Ada is forced to trust Leon or else she’d die but it doesn’t feel natural. They don’t get a lot of screen time together like the original. We don’t know Ada’s feelings toward Leon until the very end. She just throws him a rocket launcher. The remake lacks a lot of patience and subtlety, especially for Ada. Annette just tells Leon she’s a spy and Leon tries to kill her.
Agreed, who came up with these character/story changes and why they did it? They're not very good
It's not like they had a blank canvas. Everything was already there, all they had to do was add to it and make it better, but they did the opposite.

Ada came across as a stuck up bitch in the remake (personally speaking).
Very unlikeable, a shame because Ada is one of my fav's in the franchise.

I don't see them doing better at story telling & character development for further instalments. Gaming has changed and RE will be like all those other sucky games in the story department.
There are current/modern games that do it well, I can't understand why Capcom chooses to make everything cheesy/cliche/eye rolling.
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Old 01-01-20, 20:54   #31737
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I agree. Overall I always thought Clare was the more central character due to her reasoning for being there connecting with Chris. I feel like they wanted to push for Clare to be the more central character but and Leon, for once, feels pushed out. I do feel the game needed a bit more development time personally.
One scene from the original that should have been in the remake, Claire in the diner finding the waitress being eaten by a zombie.

I'd like to see Claire appear in more Resident Evil games, Leon should be put to one side for a while and when they bring him back get a better voice actor like David Hayter, Troy Baker or Elias Toufexis aka Adam Jensen from Deus Ex.

I prefer PS1 Leon over remake Leon who has zero personality compared to the PS1 Leon, have you seen the movie Inside Out I wonder what all the Leon's inside remake Leon's head are like.

I was disappointed when the demo came out because we could only play as Leon I wanted to play as Claire, we should have been given the choice as to which character we wanted to play as instead of having the choice made for us.

I was also annoyed that there was no Claire statue with the collectors edition just Leon, I do like the Leon statue but I would have liked to have been able to choose which statue I wanted.

I'd say that Leon's campaign was developed after Claire's campaign was complete and they had to rush Leon's campaign to completion and probably cut some corners and took some stuff out so that it would have been completed in time for release, plus I think that Ben's death sucked compared to how he died in the PS1 version, his death should have been identical to the PS1 version.

Also there should have been a Brad Vickers zombie just like the original instead of having him on a poster in the remake.

Leon's campaign is such a chore to play and it kills me to have to play it again just to get the new trophy, I'm just going to rush through it as quickly as possible and get it over with the infinite weapons will speed that up.
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Old 01-01-20, 23:43   #31738
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Ada's death had no impact at all since everyone knows that she survives and helps the scenario B Leon/Claire.
If you play Leon A or Leon B the first time, you don't know whether Ada's still alive until after her death cutscene. I prefer the Leon A death scene due to the soundtrack. Also, if you examine Ada's gun after the cutscene ends, Leon notes that the gun had no bullets in it. Meaning that Ada had no intention of shooting Leon. A nice little detail. It's not a super deep cutscene or anything.

Not sure why they removed the John references during Ada's cutscene though. It's not like it's a small detail that had no relevance to the story. John was the reason why Ada was able to get close to Umbrella in the first place. Plus, he was mentioned a good bit in OG RE2's story. Ada even has a photograph with the two of them. It was also one of the few references to RE1. Before the remake was released, I thought there would've been more references to the Mansion Incident. It would've been a nice recap for fans that might've not played RE1/REmaster in a long time.
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Old 02-01-20, 03:35   #31739
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Honestly, nothing in RE2 seems like it was super focused and detail oriented. Especially the whole 1st and 2nd run continuity thing with Mr. X, cutscenes, and boss fights. It’s baffles me.

I like some of the changes they made, but I would have preferred something closer to the original, plot wise. I think many of the plot changes were a result of the gameplay changes.

Leon and Claire need excuses to leave the police station through the garage, and not into the sewers, which makes no sense because he streets are dangerous. Annette care’s very little for her daughter’s wellbeing. Chiefs got full pedo and kidnaps Sherry with no build up.

It all felt rushed.
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Old 02-01-20, 16:35   #31740
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Ada’s death works in the original because the games builds up to it across two games. We get more time to know Ada, who she is, what she wants, the truth, etc. Even if you played RE1, Ada still keeps her allure.

She sticks to her story - she’s trying to find her boyfriend. She’s also humanized before the spy reveal, and Leon and Ada look after one another several times, especially after she’s wounded by a monster. The two spend a lot of time together. She even helps Leon kill zombies. We later learn that Ada is a spy, and Ada threatens to kill Leon for the sample. After her death, we learn that she doesn’t actually want to kill him. It’s a nice play of the two - Ada learns to trust Leon. Leon grows to distrust Ada. Her death is a slow burn in both scenarios.

The same behavior is moved forward in RE4. Wesker deliberately tells Ada to kill Leon. She never does.

In the remake, Ada flat out lies to Leon the entire time and Leon buys it. Towards the end, Ada is forced to trust Leon or else she’d die but it doesn’t feel natural. They don’t get a lot of screen time together like the original. We don’t know Ada’s feelings toward Leon until the very end. She just throws him a rocket launcher. The remake lacks a lot of patience and subtlety, especially for Ada. Annette just tells Leon she’s a spy and Leon tries to kill her.
You summed up everything perfectly, I couldn't have said it better! This is why I really don't like the changes made to Ada in the remake. The writing for her isn't bad per say (besides the "Secret weapon time" line. Yuck), but in terms of what we had in the original, it's not very good. Not only have we lost the connection to RE1 since Ada is no longer looking for her "boyfriend" John, but like Noonbob mentioned now she acts like a stuck up bitch. She's once again fallen into the super spy bad ass trope when that's not at all how she acted in the original, she was a little aloof toward Leon, but that could be chalked up to her being worried about her supposed boyfriend, but she wasn't a snobby bitch. Also her conversations with Annette give away her true intentions so quickly, so it's very obvious that Ada is lying and manipulating Leon, there's no subtly or mystery to her character. Which isn't surprising, this is an issue with all the characters/story overall in the remake. :\
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