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Old 11-12-19, 18:49   #21
Emix
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Originally Posted by iWANEX View Post
People hate Paititi because you can't put Lara in pretty clothes. Period. You might dislike it for some other legitimate reasons, but all the HATE comes from that. I still remember the very first complaints about the hub, and all them were about the outfits, which I felt was pretty shallow initially.

I like Paititi, I think it's an awesome hub with lots of things to do and explore. Technically it's a pretty impressive thing they've accomplished, even if it didn't meet people's expectations in the end.
Not true at all.
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Old 11-12-19, 18:53   #22
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Should we take this as a sign that you actually enjoyed Shadow?
Yeah.

Imo Shadow is the best TR game since TR 4.

Edit: The only disappointment I have with Shadow is the platforming sections.(PS1 TR games have better platforming than Shadow.)

Last edited by dg1995; 11-12-19 at 19:00.
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Old 11-12-19, 18:57   #23
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Not true at all.
Which part?
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Old 11-12-19, 19:21   #24
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Originally Posted by iWANEX View Post
Which part?
This part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWANEX View Post
People hate Paititi because you can't put Lara in pretty clothes. Period. You might dislike it for some other legitimate reasons, but all the HATE comes from that. I still remember the very first complaints about the hub, and all them were about the outfits, which I felt was pretty shallow initially.

I like Paititi, I think it's an awesome hub with lots of things to do and explore. Technically it's a pretty impressive thing they've accomplished, even if it didn't meet people's expectations in the end.
You have an entire thread with people explaining why they don't like it besides the outfit restriction, so peoples distain for it doesn't ALL come from that.

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Originally Posted by Costel View Post
Outfit restriction
Outfits are ugly
Boring side quests with boring npc
Cannot draw your bow
Cannot use any weapon
Unskipable cutscenes
Unuratu and Etzli
Etzli again cause I hate him
Dramatic moments that dont do anything .CD/EM stop trying to make us feel sorry for the deaths of characters we barely know cause they got 4-5 cutscenes maximum.
Etzli again for that unskipable cutscene when Lara leaves Paititi after Unuratu dies.
Outfits restriction again cause they are also restricted in Cenote.
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Originally Posted by JoelCaesar View Post
It ruins the pacing of the game. There is a massive set up from the beginning of the game to first arriving in Paititi. You can easily spend hours just wandering around collecting relics, documents etc. A section that is so long with a complete absence of combat really breaks the pace and you completely forget about the apocalypse.
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Originally Posted by Portugalraider View Post
It is very restrictive by its "peaceful, no combat" nature, although I personally love to explore it and think that, as an environment, it is really well designed.

It also has a big problem of "wasted potential" I think. Paititi should have had three different states of play, to improve pacing on only of the hub, but from the game itself:

The first state should be as it is now: peaceful village. This would be the state the first time you reached Paititi and after you finish the game. You can roam as freely as you want around Paititi, doing side quests and stuff.

Second state should be a sort of "stealth state", activated when Unuratu is arrested and the rebels go into hiding. In this state, you'd have to sneak around the serpent guards, looking for anyone linked to the rebels, sort of like an Assassin's Creed game. The more sidequests you did in the first state (and continue to do in this one), the easier this stealth section gets, because more NPC's are willing to help you (distracting guards and whatnot). You could use violence, but it is discouraged because it can make you lose NPC trust.

Third state should have been an all out war in the streets of Paititi (possibly destroyed from any of the cataclysms). You'd fight Trinity and the serpent guarf your way to the final chapter, instead of just talking to Etzil. And again, the more NPC trust you have, the more NPCs help the rebels and traversing gets easier for Lara.
Some examples

Last edited by Daft Raider; 11-12-19 at 19:23.
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Old 11-12-19, 19:30   #25
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Yeah.

Imo Shadow is the best TR game since TR 4.

Edit: The only disappointment I have with Shadow is the platforming sections.(PS1 TR games have better platforming than Shadow.)
That's great you liked it, there are parts about it I liked myself. The tombs and the swimming is really good. Especially the swimming, we haven't had anything like it since the classics.

Here is my long post explaining the problems of Paititi and why I and many others don't like it. I'll leave it in text format in case you want to quote parts of it to reply.

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Originally Posted by charmedangelin View Post
Post below
This I agree, people hated it with a passion since day one. It was one of the biggest issues for the Paititi. It grew much bigger when the DLCs came out, but it most definitely was one of the biggest issues with that area.

The other big issue was the social aspect itself. People didn't buy a TR game to play Assassin's Creed. Running around in towns, solving quests, it was everything people really didn't like and definitely didn't want when they first did this in Rise. While I get the formula will evolve and they will try new things, this was a massive bust. They put too much importance on the social aspect of the game and little to none of what the game was actually supposed to be about. While open world hubs can work for TR, social hubs will never work. Tomb Raider is not that kind of game. What they should have done was expand on 2013s hubs because they had a good foundation. All they needed to do was build off of the concept they had.

Now I'm going to jump to another point which is the story. Paititi was just so wrong for the story. It was the problem with Shadow and what ultimately caused the game to crash and burn in some regards. Paititi introduced massive and I mean MASSIVE cognitive dissonance. What do I mean by this you ask?

First let me explain exactly what is cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is in simple terms when two opposing ideas conflict. Shadow of the tomb raider started out as a video game exclusively about Lara Croft. From the tsunami we are foreshadowed the motif or the main idea behind the game. Exploring the darkness within Lara Croft and questioning her decisions as she is hinted to make many more conflicting and morally questionable choices that ultimately will have her self reflect and decide on the kind of person she is and who she is going to be. The tone was set when they showed off the duality of Lara Croft the conscious Croft on the surface, with the unconscious Croft made up of things deep within. The apocalypse was a metaphor for the inner turmoil that was going to brew within her.

In other words this game was going to be all about Lara Croft. Not her daddy, not her mommy, not Trinity, but Lara Croft. Even Dominguez questions Lara Croft's actions when she removed the dagger without thinking or caring. There was no point on reflecting on Trinity as we know what they are all about due to their actions in Rise.

After the events from the tsunami we a thrown into a jungle and begin the tale of Lara Croft. This is part of where the game falls off because it is here where they introduce a plot device that made absolutely no sense and completely messed up the tale they had going for Lara from the start. Namely her parents and the mystery of Trinity.

At this moment the game experiences some slight Cognitive Dissonance because you have two storylines sort of competing for the main general purpose of her adventure. Is she here for herself or is the story now going to be about her parents and Trinity again? However I say slightly as these two issues aren't entirely separate as part of Lara's identity does involve the tragic loss of her parents. So I can kinda forgive this and see it as one unit or one game with a continuing storyline from the Tsunami.

However there is one point and one point only that not only breaks the game, but it completely severs all connections and ties to what the game set out to be from the beginning and divides the game into two separate tales without any conjoint between them.

That moment is when Lara reaches Paititi. It's like the game suddenly pulls you from one game and drags you into another because suddenly your Lara Croft, wearing tribal outfits in a world completely cut off from the game that came before. It is where Lara's tale becomes completely nonexistent and it is at this point in time where MASSIVE cognitive dissonance comes into play.

What do I mean, well in the previous game we were being taken on an adventure about Lara Croft, discovering the person that she was within. A game where she is in a rush to stop a massive apocalypse that threatens to end the world.

In the second game we are dragged into a world where Lara Croft finds a lost village of tribal people and her purpose does not exist for the sake of herself, but for the sake of everyone and everything there. She goes from this grey and questionable person to saint croft. The story is no longer about Lara Croft, heck it's not even about her parents or Trinity. It's all about this village in civil conflict between two groups of followers who are fighting for power. One a Queen and the other a misguided king. The narrative takes a complete shift from what the game established at the beginning from being about Lara Croft to being all about the backwards village and the people who inhabit it.

This sudden shift causes massive cognitive dissonance because the two ideas of Lara stopping an apocalypse while examining the choices she makes to restoring order in a lost village and being the saint of Patiti.

It's like if your sitting their eating a cheese Pizza and then someone suddenly grabs it and your now eating steamed broccoli. It's a complete shift that opposes what came before it. It's like we are play two separate games in one single package. And even at this point the game can't keep it straight as the focus again shifts to a little boy learning to become a king.

Paititi was a mess, it completely interfered in what the game was going for and what the game was originally about. We went from Lara Croft exploring tombs in an attempt to save the world to Lara becoming the saint of Paititi, it's daily chore slave running errand for the people there.

It is this issue that I believe causes a lot of people to have massive issues about Paititi as a whole. Its what is so off putting about it, it's not just the fact that the outfits are restricted, it's the fact that your basically forced to play an entirely different game that has little to no connection to the one you had been playing 25 minuets ago.

Paititi should have been the background to Lara's development instead of Lara Croft developing Paititi. The whole thing is backwards and is exactly what really destroys the flow of the game.

I am not surprised that people don't like it and/or just flat out hate it completely.
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Last edited by charmedangelin; 11-12-19 at 19:32.
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Old 11-12-19, 20:40   #26
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That's great you liked it, there are parts about it I liked myself. The tombs and the swimming is really good. Especially the swimming, we haven't had anything like it since the classics.

Here is my long post explaining the problems of Paititi and why I and many others don't like it. I'll leave it in text format in case you want to quote parts of it to reply.
Yeah, I know the story became more messed up as it went along.
But then again I never felt that reboot games ever had a good storyline.(In the first game Lara regrets killing that man but she forgot about it after a minute and ends up killing 200 more.)

I agree with your post about shadow's story. A problem that kinda annoyed me was this that I never felt that Lara had any feelings of remorse toward removing that dagger which ended up killing those innocent civilians.

But I didn't care about it since I just focused on enjoying gameplay.
Imo,the only TR game with a really good story was AOD but even that had it's own issues.(Cancelled sequels, deleted sections)

Edit: Also the city hub sections felt like the city sections in TR AOD.(Where you have to do other people errands.) so I had no problem with having them in a TR game.

Last edited by dg1995; 11-12-19 at 20:42.
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Old 11-12-19, 21:10   #27
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So why Paititi gets so much hate here ?
For many, it comes from the idiotic restriction.
For me, it comes from many other angle:
-it breaks the pace : doing the story only, the game literally sends you to the farthest point of Patooti, with one exception; when Lara goes to the mountain temple
-it removes the urgence of an upcoming apocalypse
- forced walking/crawling paths
-little to nothing to do: Patooti is indeed big and is filled with collectables, but it still feels empty, just like the geothermal valley...
- also Patooti is not part of the story at all: everything is isolated to a small court/room/cave. At least in RoTR the valley was a part of the story. (Fighting Trinity, Kitezh entrance was also located there, along with the Atlas etc.) They tried to make it to look like it is an important part of the game, whereas Patooti is just a soulles empty HUB, which is big just for the sake of being big.

The list could go on.

Quote:
Did it have a problem that was fixed in the definitive edition ?
Definitive edition fixed nothing. It gave us an ugly eclipse/star icon, an ugly outfit (for me)... and a new cover. That's pretty much it.
Like I said this before, they are still not bothered to remove/uptade the photocontest in the main menu, which still refers to february.
Missing magazine, missing sfx on multiple outfits, optional restriction removal post game only...

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Edit: Also the city hub sections felt like the city sections in TR AOD.(Where you have to do other people errands.) so I had no problem with having them in a TR game.
Yeah, but in AoD, Lara needed info, weapons , some kind of access to the Louvre, while (supposedly) being chased by the police.
In reboot she accepts stuff, just for the sake of being a hero:

-shoots down drones
-helps to build watchtowers
-goes exploring, just to recover and give back "secrets"
-locates and shots down a bird with a message
-breaks transmitters
-kills wolves, just to have a hideout for the remnants
-recovers a dice, to learn stuff about life, that she already knew
-helps to learn an ancient language, only to stop a sacrifice (which to those people were completely normal, mind you)
-investigates a murder (while herself is in a disguise)

... and god knows what else she did. Those above had nothing to do with her main goal: put an end to an apocalypse; while in AoD she did it out of necessity. (2 errands: deliver a box to get to Bouchard and deliver passports to get weapons)

Last edited by Zsott; 11-12-19 at 21:28.
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Old 11-12-19, 21:15   #28
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I don't hate Paititi. I actually quite like it. Its so lively, colourful and inviting, as it's intended to be. What it suffers form is having a feeling of being separate from the rest of the game in terms of the Maya apocalypse, even though the eclipse is mentioned from as soon as you enter the city, it only became an actual thing to worry about at the very end during the race to stop Amaru. There is no signs that there is anything wrong unlike the other towns. In saying that, I didn't think it slowed the pace of the story quite as much as others are implying. If you follow the story, Lara continues to look for the box even when Una is captured. I think Lara deviated from the plan, like once. Paititi is too big though, if you're useless at directions like me . Like any of the other hubs, if you take your time to do the optional missions, crypts and tombs, then of course the pace will slow to an almost snail pace as it can be very time consuming in such a large space.

I think I can understand why perhaps other peeps don't like it too much. Perhaps the social aspect feels out of place in a TR game that has previously been mostly about isolation. Personally, I think it makes it different and fresh, but perhaps keep this aspect limited to smaller towns. San Juan probably works better example if kept to a short visit. I mean Lara has visited towns before and they've been strangely absent of any activity. I'm not as mad at the outfit restriction as others are, but I'd have preferred it if it was only for the story parts and freedom returned to the player for the optional stuff.
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Old 11-12-19, 21:26   #29
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I don't hate Paititi. I actually
I can’t even...
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We don’t hate Paititi. Paititi hates Tomb Raider...
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Old 11-12-19, 21:34   #30
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Lack of real gameplay ?

It had tons of gameplay there. Exploration,Tombs,Platforming,Shops,Side Quests,Combat,Platforming.
not even gonna mention ur comment about pacing because... welp.

and yeah there's a lack of gameplay in paititi, as in the hub. the tombs and all the missions that are not fetch quests take you out of the hub (not to mention that the story bits concerning paititi also take you out of the hub lol), because all you can do in paititi is run around, steal people's **** and talk to them.

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People hate Paititi because you can't put Lara in pretty clothes. Period. You might dislike it for some other legitimate reasons, but all the HATE comes from that.
not true lmao care to elaborate?
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