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Old 04-11-18, 19:49   #21
Caesum
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^ Can you provide a full info when and why/how working with Tomb Editor + 3ds max is tiresome? Most possibly Monty just doesn't know how irksome it is since nobody ever reports such stuff and he doesn't use 3ds max.

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Old 04-11-18, 23:55   #22
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I'm guessing it might be about the clicking on geometry placeholders... since import/export doesn't even work yet it's too early to judge, but when all is sorted out I'm convinced psiko will switch in no time.
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Old 05-11-18, 03:07   #23
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So to see for myself, the wonders of UV mapped objects in the wad2.
I'm sorry guys, back on topic.
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Old 06-11-18, 16:24   #24
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Sorry, yesterday I had one of those "I had a crash and lost what I was writing" internet moments, so I am trying again today

First of all I had a short pm session with Monty and he agreed for now custom gemetry is a bit intricated comparing to ease of meta2tr. I hadn't time to reply to his latest for few weeks, though, due to my busy job and rare spare time.
So for what I can, I am describing those concerns to him directly (Italian is our mother language, so it's pretty easy).

I'll give you an example about some of the workflow that is very fast in 3dsmax+meta2tr rather than 3dsmax+tomb editor.

In 3dsmax there's an automatic tool, "rename objects". It allows to select as many items you wish, for instance all the stones in a rocky room010 and rename them after their room they belong to, room010.
Export in mqo format.
Open your roomall.mqo file and insert that new file, with all those stones. As they are named as room010, I simply tell metasequoia to merge them all, in a blink of an ehe.
Import new room with meta2tr.
You have your level updated in few clicks of mouse.
And you can do that for a level of tens of rooms, even a hundred of rooms.

But with tomb editor you still have to import single rooms and each time update them singularly, tens of rooms, with infinite possibilitis of human errors (am I updating the correct file?, after tens of those...).


This is because tomb editor, even if the mqo file has room010 or roomXXX items in it, is not able to recognize which geometry is for a room or another, and I have to import (or reimport) many new and old mqo files at each updates.. it's very long, time consuming and boring... compared to meta2tr.

This is just one of the example.. but I agree that for an object horiented level editor, tomb editor is really gorgeous.

Monty told me (and I'll wait for it) that probably a meta2tr program for tombeditor might see the day of light. I wish!
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Old 06-11-18, 16:41   #25
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So it's just a matter of importing multiple rooms from a single file. Once Monty has time to sit down to the import/export functionality I think he should be able to implement this in TE too.
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Old 06-11-18, 17:18   #26
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This is off-topic I know, but I really don't see why yet another program needs to be built to allow meta2tr features in Tomb Editor? Ideally TE should allow importing of multiple rooms and associate them with the correct editor room based on the room index. Features like room merging, vertex colouring and weights for wave/reflection effects are also still missing.

I don't think a lot of builders are actually using meta2tr to its fullest potential like psiko and others do, so perhaps it would help if the TE devs can take a look at what's actually possible with meta2tr's workflow.
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Old 06-11-18, 19:47   #27
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Until just recently meta2tr refused to load level files compiled with TE for unknown reasons. At least one such reason was identified and resolved (ordering of vertices). There was also at least one more reason - mixing of object and room textures in the level file - which I believe has also been sorted out. There might be other reasons meta2tr will still refuse to load levels from TE, but the program's author is not here to help, which means having to play a bit of a guessing game or depend on tips and contributions from other devs in figuring out what is it that meta2tr still doesn't like.
In the meantime, more focus was put on eliminating the need for an intermediate format like MQO in import/export of rooms and objects, and on implementing a more flexible approach (like being able to import separate objects and move them around in the editor), which means some pathways had been decided upon and the editor would require adjustments or a separate tool to "degrade" to the meta2tr workflow.
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