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Old 19-05-19, 14:06   #331
Legends
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Originally Posted by xcrushterx View Post
Watching this and all I see is someone laying out past demonstrations of Dany's brutality to support that she has this side to her. None of that is foreshadowing. That is Dany's character. The video is dressed up in a way that seems like it's being critical of the execution, but it doesn't actually criticise the execution so it just comes across as someone who's salty this has happened even though they say they are fine with it.
Yes, exactly.

Some other videos to watch instead that doesn't defend ****ty writing.


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I don't think the petition is about fans getting their perfect ending, nor do any actually expect them to remake the season. It's just about sending a message.
It's funny when people don't get it and act like fans are hysterical when that's obviously not the case. It's all about the message.
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Old 19-05-19, 14:14   #332
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Well I don't like the fact that they've turned one of my favourite characters into the Dark Lord and I wouldn't have liked it even if they'd done it well.

And I think a lot of people feel similarly about characters they like, so I don't see why people aren't able to say that......... (speaking about the internet in general, not anyone on here)

But yes, I don't think it was done well enough either. Perhaps if it had I might have accepted it more, but we'll never know now.

I doubt I would have though.

Last edited by Blackmoor; 19-05-19 at 14:15.
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Old 19-05-19, 14:23   #333
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It's funny when people don't get it and act like fans are hysterical when that's obviously not the case. It's all about the message.
I mean, if my Twitter feed is any indication, then fans are hysterical about this, so I'm not sure what you mean. And some genuinely do want to see a remake, regardless of whether or not they're trying to "send a message".

I more find it troubling that fans are going so far as google-bombing the show's writers. People are this full of spite that they're going to trash the two writers that gave them 7 of the greatest seasons television has ever seen? And yes, I realize that GRRM had the source material behind it, but he did not adapt it to the screen, and that's a daunting task in its own right.

Also, I don't think that video that Tombraider95 shared is saying that the writing in Seasons 7 and 8 hasn't been lacking. It clearly has been, which is why the show did such a bad job of getting Dany to this ending. It's saying that the examples of her brutality are real foreshadowing of the carnage that she could unleash if her morals were misplaced. Season 7 and 8 lacked the ability to properly unravel her morals. "The Last of the Starks" is probably the worst episode of the series, largely because it tries to cram in the reasons for what happens in "The Bells". Had the proper foreground been laid before "The Bells", I think that episode would have had a much better reception.

It would be like if "The Rains of Castamere" had one preceding episode where Robb goes from making every correct decision and then, in a single episode, he: blows off marrying Walder Frey's daughter, beheads Lord Karstark, and lets Catelyn free Jaime Lannister. That would be an out-of-nowhere devolution of a character arc.

Last edited by sheepman23; 19-05-19 at 14:26.
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Old 19-05-19, 14:58   #334
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I mean, if my Twitter feed is any indication, then fans are hysterical about this, so I'm not sure what you mean. And some genuinely do want to see a remake, regardless of whether or not they're trying to "send a message".

I more find it troubling that fans are going so far as google-bombing the show's writers. People are this full of spite that they're going to trash the two writers that gave them 7 of the greatest seasons television has ever seen? And yes, I realize that GRRM had the source material behind it, but he did not adapt it to the screen, and that's a daunting task in its own right.
Read the subreddits instead of people who impulse tweet their feelings. There is actually people making an effort there with throughout posts. I guess there are some fans that are hysterical, but the petition isn't hysterical because season 8 has been catastrophically badly written. When D&D **** up so badly and just decides to "subvert expectation" and throw all logic out the window they deserve to be labeled bad writers. Nothing that happened this season was earned. They were actually never good writers to begin with, and it's never been more evident. They were good at adapting existing material, but they strayed from it too soon, skipped a bunch of things, and now here we are. It's entirely their own fault. They have the perfect cast and basically unlimited resources, but they didn't want it. That's not how you wrap up what should have been their masterpiece.

Take Jamie. "I never really cared about the people". He's entire character is pointless now. He saved King's Landing from the Mad King, and he came North to fight for the living, but he never really cared about the people, lol. I guess Cersei never cared about her children, Dany never cared about the Throne, Brienne never cared about honor, Bronn never cared about getting a castle, Renley never cared about men and Bobby B never cared about Lyanna... Sorry, lmao.

Last edited by Legends; 19-05-19 at 15:00.
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Old 19-05-19, 15:09   #335
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Lol reddit is just as hysterical as twitter. More so, maybe.

I agree that this has been a bit rushed and as per my previous post, I agree it could have been done better, but I also believe that the bulk of the negativity that the show is experiencing at the minute is due to shock/rage from Dany stans that this has happened and that the reaction will mellow considerably once people have had time to detach themselves from the current hysteria. This ending will forever be divisive, but it'll probably age relatively well.
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Old 19-05-19, 15:37   #336
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Originally Posted by xcrushterx View Post
I also believe that the bulk of the negativity that the show is experiencing at the minute is due to shock/rage from Dany stans that this has happened and that the reaction will mellow considerably once people have had time to detach themselves from the current hysteria. This ending will forever be divisive, but it'll probably age relatively well.
This statement is exactly what the problem is. Some people are upset by that, sure, but most people aren't upset that she went mad, but because of the writing. Everyone is usually very clear about that distinction, so to willfully ignore it like that is just naive.
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Old 19-05-19, 15:44   #337
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This statement is exactly what the problem is. Some people are upset by that, sure, but most people aren't upset that she went mad, but because of the writing. Everyone is usually very clear about that distinction, so to willfully ignore it like that is just naive.
I'm not willfully ignoring it. I'm calling bull**** on it instead.
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Old 19-05-19, 15:50   #338
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I'm not willfully ignoring it. I'm calling bull**** on it instead.
Even worse.
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Old 19-05-19, 15:52   #339
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Originally Posted by Legends View Post
Read the subreddits instead of people who impulse tweet their feelings. There is actually people making an effort there with throughout posts. I guess there are some fans that are hysterical, but the petition isn't hysterical because season 8 has been catastrophically badly written. When D&D **** up so badly and just decides to "subvert expectation" and throw all logic out the window they deserve to be labeled bad writers. Nothing that happened this season was earned. They were actually never good writers to begin with, and it's never been more evident. They were good at adapting existing material, but they strayed from it too soon, skipped a bunch of things, and now here we are. It's entirely their own fault. They have the perfect cast and basically unlimited resources, but they didn't want it. That's not how you wrap up what should have been their masterpiece.
I read r/asoiaf after every episode, and trust me, the hysteria is just as palpable there. It's a conglomeration of book readers who can't stand anything that D&D take creative liberty on. That's probably a harsh generalization, but it's accurate for a great number of the top posts in every post-episode discussion.

Still, this discussion we're having is getting away from my initial point. None of people's problems with the writing - and I've already said that I have a great deal of them over Season 7 and 8 - make it worth signing a petition to rewrite it or google-bombing. These guys gave us one of the greatest journeys in television history and I'm just sick of the people calling for their public shaming.

Quote:
Take Jamie. "I never really cared about the people". He's entire character is pointless now. He saved King's Landing from the Mad King, and he came North to fight for the living, but he never really cared about the people, lol. I guess Cersei never cared about her children, Dany never cared about the Throne, Brienne never cared about honor, Bronn never cared about getting a castle, Renley never cared about men and Bobby B never cared about Lyanna... Sorry, lmao.
I totally agree about Jaime's arc since that actually did come out of complete nowhere. People are trying to defend him by saying that his love for Cersei has always been there (like a disease), and he can't hide it, but that has nothing to do with those words to Tyrion. Jaime was actually the most disappointing character to see in Ep 5. Cersei wasn't much better - I'm so mad that they've given Lena Headey ridiculously minimal screentime over Season 8.

But this abrupt retreat on a character arc is different than Daenerys' madness. The show HAS foreshadowed that she can channel Targaryen rage. What the show didn't show us was ANY moment where she could be capable of committing arguably the greatest war crime in Westeros history. That's what upsets me, and what the writers failed to build up to in 7 and 8.

I can only hope that GRRM's version is better...
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Old 19-05-19, 16:49   #340
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Lol reddit is just as hysterical as twitter. More so, maybe.

I agree that this has been a bit rushed and as per my previous post, I agree it could have been done better, but I also believe that the bulk of the negativity that the show is experiencing at the minute is due to shock/rage from Dany stans that this has happened and that the reaction will mellow considerably once people have had time to detach themselves from the current hysteria. This ending will forever be divisive, but it'll probably age relatively well.
I highly doubt it to be honest. People aren't hating on this season because they don't like the themes it presents like Mad Queen Dany. The season is getting flack because of the crap, shoddy and CLUMSY writing like teleporting Arya, Dany forgetting about the Iron Fleet, Tyrion and Varys turning into bumbling idiots, Jon's constant "YoU ARe My QUeeN", and so much more.
With ratings and backlash such as this, this season will probably go down as one of the many examples of shows jumping the shark in their final season (HIMYM, Dexter, Lost).
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