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Old 19-01-20, 22:13   #421
lance6439
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How? How do you do that? By sitting in this thread surrounded by maybe less than 100 people and constantly talk about the same thing over and over again?

What is the endgame here? Do you think one day a higher up stumbles in here, sees your posts and goes: "Magical, the answer we were looking for...hire all those good, well mannered people to help us"

The petition is already a dead thing because the people rather continue the same nonsense ranting and circle jerking like in the other 344366 threads.
And that is the thing it really is.

People rant here and a few others go "I agree, well put, Thumbs up etc" patting each other on the shoulder while sitting around in a small box.

Like i said before, most petitions dont get any attention despite more than 1000 signs...how do you think this petition will do better when the one nigel had went nowhere because nobody did anything with the 100+ signs?

How do you think this petition right now helps? Who will see it? When? How?
Do you think a petition on a tomb raider forum with less than 100 signs gets any attention?

I know i annoy with it, but what about the twitter hashtag thing?
Let me ask directly Samz, have you taken it upon yourself to get something going there since you are so invested in the topic?
What about you Nigel, charmed, lance, larafan25, paulojr_mam...has anybody of you ran with the idea or a better one?
You've been saying what I said. All I want is a side game based off the original TR. Not Lara turning into CLara. One of the reasons why I didn't sign is because of things you mentioned lol


I like reboot a lot
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Old 19-01-20, 22:19   #422
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^But the petition doesn't ask for reboot Lara to turn into classic Lara. This is clearly not that.

Although, was the name of this thread different before?
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Old 19-01-20, 22:23   #423
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Okay, so it doesn't matter that TR2013 was in every platform whereas TR1996 was in only two, it doesn't matter that TR1996 was a new brand while TR2013 was in an already well-established brand, it doesn't matter that the games market is much bigger now than it was back then, it doesn't matter that TR1996 was unique and revolutionary at its time whereas TR2013 is copy-pasted from other games and rather irrelevant. I suppose it really doesn't matter in an alternate delusional reality.
This mf TEA!
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Old 19-01-20, 22:29   #424
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^But the petition doesn't ask for reboot Lara to turn into classic Lara. This is clearly not that.

Although, was the name of this thread different before?
I think it's a done deal. They've teased classic elements, removed classic elements. They're confused and lost. 3 games and movie with some fan service all to be told to forget it all and it might be in the next game.

I also think it's stupid how people want to bring up numbers when it comes to the reboot games. Those large numbers meanwhile the reboot era as a whole made zero impact in pop culture outside maybe Halloween and cosplay conventions. Meanwhile CLaras legacy is cemented in pop culture and will never get erased like how SE so badly wants to.
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Old 19-01-20, 22:31   #425
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Okay, so it doesn't matter that TR2013 was in every platform whereas TR1996 was in only two, it doesn't matter that TR1996 was a new brand while TR2013 was in an already well-established brand, it doesn't matter that the games market is much bigger now than it was back then, it doesn't matter that TR1996 was unique and revolutionary at its time whereas TR2013 is copy-pasted from other games and rather irrelevant. I suppose it really doesn't matter in an alternate delusional reality.
This is perfect. The reboot really is just a bunch of copy/paste crap from other games in hope of trying to make Tomb Raider more mainstream, but all it did was replace all that was Tomb Raider for a less mediocre gimmicky mess. They love their alternative delusional reality though, lol.
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Old 19-01-20, 22:32   #426
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I think it's a done deal. They've teased classic elements, removed classic elements. They're confused and lost. 3 games and movie with some fan service all to be told to forget it all and it might be in the next game.

I also think it's stupid how people want to bring up numbers when it comes to the reboot games. Those large numbers meanwhile the reboot era as a whole made zero impact in pop culture outside maybe Halloween and cosplay conventions. Meanwhile CLaras legacy is cemented in pop culture and will never get erased like how SE so badly wants to.
I agree, especially when they use those numbers out of context.
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Old 19-01-20, 22:36   #427
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Which becomes painfully boring, which ends up driving people away. People play games to have fun - most people at least.

Now, I don't mean that reboot TR shouldn't be improved, or get harder actual puzzles - not at all. Go for it, as long as it's cool and makes sense.
Now, putting levers and keys lying at random places, opening random doors, and having movable walls disguised as the rest of the scenario, and do this for the literal entirety of a game, and so on, it just won't stick nowadays.

TR is pretty adventure, mixed with action. I do agree that TR2013 had too much combat - but SOTTR had too little. ROTTR was the perfect balance. Along with the stuff that was added in SOTTR, it would be perfect.

SOTTR did a lot of good in regards to the older TR games, which are simply dismissed over here, and were critized by the gp, being deemed as puzzle simulator and so on.

I've already said multiple times - you shouldn't expect SE/CD/EM to simply drop the current iteration, and go to classic TR. That will NEVER happen, no matter how you like it or not. As some pointed out, when the current iteration ends, and they decide to reboot again (that is, if they don't just put it in hiatus), it's way more likely for it to go to something like LAU, than classic. The formula will most likely be slightly overhauled by TR4, and what I think it makes more sense to hope, is that they continue the work made with SOTTR, wich was already the start of the middle ground between current and past TR. But looking at the picture, and from a business point of view, it's just hard to tell right now.

Yeah, its boring for some people, some people also find "True" stealth (AKA something like Thief, where you just spend time hiding in Shadows, slowly sneaking up on people and generally slowly creeping around.) boring and prefer "Quick" stealth. (AKA running around staying out of a simple line of sight shooting people in the head such as most of the MGS games.)

Yes Adventure games are Niche but honestly thats the reason I play TR, I didn't fall in love with TR3's opening level as a kid without a memory card becuase of Lara's breasts, the Graphics, the combat, swimming in a video game or anything that wasn't getting lost in an open level, thats' what made me fall in love with Tomb Raider to begin with, looking around, getting lost, finding that hidden crawl space in the areas with the boulder that has items, that's what made me enjoy the series overall, yeah as a younger kid I loved Legend's combat and I still do, but Legend has rapidly dropped off in replays for me compared to the more "Open" Tomb Raider games.

Yes, its a Niche, but the niche elements are exactly why I loved the series, heck even older shooters like Shadow Warrior actually have more maze-like levels than the reboot so I actually get somewhat (but not all) of the stuff I enjoy from say, TR3 there.

Should we not make point and click games since they won't sell as well as Uncharted/Call of Duty?

I can't speak for Shadow, I know it does things I hated from the previous games still (Weapons being handed to you in cutscenes, scripted set-pieces and the general focus on story the reboot had) but I played two previous games, didn't like them so I voted with my wallet by not getting the sequel to them, even if it turned out to be trying to be exactly like the classics, combat still mostly consists of humans, combat against animals would still be a clunky mess because of the reboot's engine, it would be a house built on an unstable foundation.

You're right, I don't expect them to suddenly drop this current version of TR, yeah I'd show my support on say, this petition on the slim-chance it actually does somehow lead to something but honestly I quite doubt it will, I don't actually expect any TR games that I would enjoy to happen in the near-future, it would be a pleasent suprise if it was but honestly I'm not holding my breath since my only enjoyed bit from 2013/Rise was a short DLC from a different developer that even then shipped with (that I never played ) zombie action mode because they simply don't expect puzzles to sell, so yes, I'll show my support when a petition or something is made but I actually have little-to-no hope of actually being able to enjoy the next games.

ROTTR had over 400 enemies if I recall from that old post of someone doing all the games, granted, I do not know how many of that was DLC, but the fact is that is most than anything that isn't underworld, Factor in the fact that most combat in the reboot is several-minutes long shootouts while a good chunk of the combat in the classics is, A single weak enemy pops out to kinda suprise you , such as a bat or something, take it out before it does any damage that might add up later in the level, that is over in seconds.

My favourite TR to replay because of how it plays (yes I'm a masochist who learned all of Lara's quirks in that game.), AOD, has a little over 100 enemies, and I'd only want about 30-ish more since certain enemies (like the humanoid mutant in the bio-research area) are only encountered once or twice in the entire game.

Alot of the combat encounters in the reboot last 3-5 minutes, more if we count the mid-combat cutscenes to introduce more enemies.

The Core encounters tended to be a few guys at a time, explore a bit more, a few guys at a time with each encounter lastin 3 minutes at most generally.

For instance, lets compare Galleries under siege (One of AOD's combat focused levels) with TR2013's Shanty Town.
Using Stella's walkthrough for the enemy numbers.

Since Shanty town is longer, I'm just going to use the "Ambush at helicopter hill" section as Stella calls it.

Shanty Town has (quickly skimming a video walkthrough linked by Stella) 17 total enemies, engaged in a single area, and the entire section is shooting bad guys from a single position, this is a single area of the level and it's arguably not even the most combat heavy part of the game.)

The entirety of the "Galleries under Siege" level lasts a little over that single section, has a total of 13 enemies, one of which only spawns if you go down a dead end after already taking down a nearby enemy (his trigger is one-off and won't spawn him if the nearby merc was sneaked past/is only temporarily down via the dart gun.) and two of which have some criteria where they don't spawn (not that I've figured out exactly what it is.). bringing the kill count to just 10, in one of the more combat-focused level's of AOD.


You've also got the fact AOD and other Core-design games, like I said have enemies like bats that go down in handful of shots with each encounter with them lasting only a few seconds, heck, AOD's bats die in single shot, heck Underworld has several sections where large numbers (roughly 7-9) Bats/Spiders are sent to rush the player, in what would only be comparably 2-3 kills in the Reboot.), so yeah its "technically" more combat but you kill that amount of enemies in less time.

I'm also pretty sure the Core-Design games are longer in general playthroughs if we remove cutscenes/"Faux-Gameplay" (AKA bits where almost nothing happens and you're forced to walk and such so the game can load.) which further reduces the combat-to-gameplay ratio.
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Old 19-01-20, 23:01   #428
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This is perfect. The reboot really is just a bunch of copy/paste crap from other games in hope of trying to make Tomb Raider more mainstream, but all it did was replace all that was Tomb Raider for a less mediocre gimmicky mess. They love their alternative delusional reality though, lol.
I wonder what format reboot would have originally stolen from had Uncharted not exist. Uncharted is one of the reasons behind Reboots success
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Old 19-01-20, 23:07   #429
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I think it's a done deal. They've teased classic elements, removed classic elements. They're confused and lost. 3 games and movie with some fan service all to be told to forget it all and it might be in the next game.
The devs have such a weird connection with Lara's past. They tease elements like duals, 'become the tomb raider' and DLC8 only to retreat again. Why do a 20th Anniversary Rise edition aimed at bringing classic fans back to then start Shadow off by dissing the classic fans? It's like Jekyll and Hyde.

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Meanwhile CLaras legacy is cemented in pop culture and will never get erased like how SE so badly wants to.
I mean that is it. You kind of get the feeling that CD and EM would want one of those men in black memory erasers that they could just delete duals, classic outfit etc from existence. Many of these things will be recognised as Lara Croft and cherished for that as long as the series goes on. As soon as the devs embrace this rather than sulking about it they will get the fandom's appreciation again.
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Old 19-01-20, 23:14   #430
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I don’t think the devs have this hatred for the classic games, that you’re all so fixed on imagining.

All of the classic outfits they have are based on the “Core Design” era of games. TR2, TR3, heck, even Angel of Darkness is referenced.

How many outfits did they make that reference their LAU trilogy? None.
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