Why did the space between nose and mouth get so wide?

Moon-Safari · 20-12-22, 13:36

Sorry for this very specific thread on a major nitpick. But it hugely detracted from the beauty of the model in Shadow. It came out of nowhere, but her entire mouth is off. I could deal with the new upper lip in rise, even though it wasn't classic Lara M shape peak, it was still cute. But in rise her lips are deflated, move weird and are so low. And her nose is really high too. It just looks so off. Am I the only one? Again sorry for this stupid thread but it's so glaringly noticeable it ruins the whole model for me even thought it's not the only thing wrong with the jacked up shadow model.

.snake. · 22-12-22, 04:49

Not sure about the distance.

But her mouth became smaller and her nose definitely became massive.

AshesBorn · 22-12-22, 16:56

Looks like a human nose to me. LAU Lara's nose was tiny, but it worked with the art style. It would probably look pretty weird on Reboot Lara.

Moon-Safari · 22-12-22, 19:06

I've seen screenshots of the shadow model on twitter where the face is at rest and the gap is noticeable. In those shots she's scrunching her face so you cant really tell, but it does show a whole other array of issues.

I think they just thinned out the lips to convey aging, as we lose facial fat and lips get thinner, so the puffy upper lip arch when thinned out made her look like she was frowning, and since the space the lips took up shrunk it created a larger space between the nose and previously full upper lip. If you change one thing and don't reposition the mouth and size of the chin up then the whole harmony of the face is off balance. It was a really sloppy job with Lara's model in this game.

Also about her nose, I don't know where they got the concept of it, but it looks nothing like any previous nose, and it's not very croft like.

I think what's notable is how much they use the VA as a model. Reboot Lara definitely looked like Camilla with the proportions changed. And original in game Lara in TR1 had the VA's nose.

I guess this means the voice actress they go with is going to determine a lot going forward. I really don't think this is the best strategy. I know AI can accurately guess what someone looks like by analyzing voice data, so they're probably trying to make the model and the voice harmonious, because people probably have this subconscious ability too, but I'm not crazy about the results they're getting. (except TRU's face looked fine. It was a mix of Angelina, Keely, and the complexion of the Lara model at the time whose name escapes me.)

AshesBorn · 23-12-22, 17:55

Eh, Keeley's nose isn't really the same size as LAU Lara's when the pics are about the same scale.

I do kiiiiiiinda see it shape-wise tho.

HarleyCroft · 23-12-22, 18:06

I want Lara to always have facial proportions that are a little too cartoony to make her look like a real person. Uncanny valley is a real thing.
For her: big eyes and lips and the smaller her nose -while still being balanced and breathable through- is the better. I only have this opinion of virtual women, I think the prevalence of nose jobs, contouring and filtering in real life has sort of skewed standards when you can't fake genes. That's all I'll say before I get called a toucan or something for my nasally views.

AshesBorn · 23-12-22, 19:53

^ I think it worked great in the older games. With Reboot and future installments (potentially) striving for photorealism, however, Lara could end up looking botched.
But I do prefer more stylized graphics and slightly exaggerated proportions, so it'd be nice to go back to that. Games like that usually age better in terms of visuals anyway.

AimlessThunder · 23-12-22, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by .snake.

Not sure about the distance.

But her mouth became smaller and her nose definitely became massive.

Massive? She still got a tiny nose! He he. It's just that her proportions got more realistic.

Blackmoor · 23-12-22, 20:59

I just hope they completely reboot the look of Lara for the next game.

The reboot version I've always found a bit lacking. Apart from the one in the trailer where she's on the ship looking in the mirror at herself - which I think is really nice.

I'd prefer something completely different for Lara. Not necessarily looking like classic Lara either, in fact I'd prefer something we haven't seen before. I just think Lara should be striking in her looks.

20-12-22, 13:36	#1
Moon-Safari Tomb Raider Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Gender: Male Posts: 10,434	Why did the space between nose and mouth get so wide? Sorry for this very specific thread on a major nitpick. But it hugely detracted from the beauty of the model in Shadow. It came out of nowhere, but her entire mouth is off. I could deal with the new upper lip in rise, even though it wasn't classic Lara M shape peak, it was still cute. But in rise her lips are deflated, move weird and are so low. And her nose is really high too. It just looks so off. Am I the only one? Again sorry for this stupid thread but it's so glaringly noticeable it ruins the whole model for me even thought it's not the only thing wrong with the jacked up shadow model. __________________ Whosoever is delighted in solitude is either a wild beast or a god -Aristotle

22-12-22, 16:56	#3
AshesBorn Professor Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Estonia Posts: 4,129	Looks like a human nose to me. LAU Lara's nose was tiny, but it worked with the art style. It would probably look pretty weird on Reboot Lara. __________________ imo

22-12-22, 19:06	#4
Moon-Safari Tomb Raider Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Gender: Male Posts: 10,434	I've seen screenshots of the shadow model on twitter where the face is at rest and the gap is noticeable. In those shots she's scrunching her face so you cant really tell, but it does show a whole other array of issues. I think they just thinned out the lips to convey aging, as we lose facial fat and lips get thinner, so the puffy upper lip arch when thinned out made her look like she was frowning, and since the space the lips took up shrunk it created a larger space between the nose and previously full upper lip. If you change one thing and don't reposition the mouth and size of the chin up then the whole harmony of the face is off balance. It was a really sloppy job with Lara's model in this game. Also about her nose, I don't know where they got the concept of it, but it looks nothing like any previous nose, and it's not very croft like. I think what's notable is how much they use the VA as a model. Reboot Lara definitely looked like Camilla with the proportions changed. And original in game Lara in TR1 had the VA's nose. I guess this means the voice actress they go with is going to determine a lot going forward. I really don't think this is the best strategy. I know AI can accurately guess what someone looks like by analyzing voice data, so they're probably trying to make the model and the voice harmonious, because people probably have this subconscious ability too, but I'm not crazy about the results they're getting. (except TRU's face looked fine. It was a mix of Angelina, Keely, and the complexion of the Lara model at the time whose name escapes me.) __________________ Whosoever is delighted in solitude is either a wild beast or a god -Aristotle Last edited by Moon-Safari; 22-12-22 at 22:39.

23-12-22, 17:55	#5
AshesBorn Professor Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Estonia Posts: 4,129	Eh, Keeley's nose isn't really the same size as LAU Lara's when the pics are about the same scale. I do kiiiiiiinda see it shape-wise tho. __________________ imo Last edited by AshesBorn; 23-12-22 at 17:56.

23-12-22, 18:06	#6
HarleyCroft Professor Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Coulrophilia Posts: 3,997	I want Lara to always have facial proportions that are a little too cartoony to make her look like a real person. Uncanny valley is a real thing. For her: big eyes and lips and the smaller her nose -while still being balanced and breathable through- is the better. I only have this opinion of virtual women, I think the prevalence of nose jobs, contouring and filtering in real life has sort of skewed standards when you can't fake genes. That's all I'll say before I get called a toucan or something for my nasally views. __________________ Well if that ain't aren't the isn't Last edited by HarleyCroft; 23-12-22 at 18:07.

22-12-22, 04:49	#2
.snake. Professor Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York Posts: 3,673	Not sure about the distance. But her mouth became smaller and her nose definitely became massive.

23-12-22, 19:53	#7
AshesBorn Professor Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Estonia Posts: 4,129	^ I think it worked great in the older games. With Reboot and future installments (potentially) striving for photorealism, however, Lara could end up looking botched. But I do prefer more stylized graphics and slightly exaggerated proportions, so it'd be nice to go back to that. Games like that usually age better in terms of visuals anyway. __________________ imo

23-12-22, 20:59	#9
Blackmoor Tomb Raider Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: In the woods at night (female) Posts: 15,016	I just hope they completely reboot the look of Lara for the next game. The reboot version I've always found a bit lacking. Apart from the one in the trailer where she's on the ship looking in the mirror at herself - which I think is really nice. I'd prefer something completely different for Lara. Not necessarily looking like classic Lara either, in fact I'd prefer something we haven't seen before. I just think Lara should be striking in her looks. __________________ Not all those who wander are lost ✻