General Tomb Raider Underworld discussion

[Jonipoon]

Not to mention that they did it before Skyrim, in all honesty the biggest influence on Norse mythology in modern video games.

[TombRager]

I'm still playing this game, however I don't even know what to say anymore. I'm stuck at the Southern Mexico section where you have that weird light blue water which insta-kills you when you touch it and every single time there are thralls appearing over and over again it's getting difficult to have fun. I honestly don't even know why the hell I am in this place or what is my purpose there. What am I even looking for actually? I think the previous sections were pretty fun but once Lara gets into this underground spider maze chicken**** it starts to go downhill for me.

edit: unrelated but everytime I play this game it begins to rain wtf.

[jajay119]

I've always said the biggest disappointment in TRU is that it is so imbalanced. The first half of the game is excellent. The second half is poor. The design decision of the platforming and puzzles regresses so much. The story completely takes a nose dive and things just start to feel very repetitive. But that's all intensified by how good thr first half was. I think if they had another 6 months to a year on it to improve the last levels and refine the story then it would have been one of the best games in the series.

[HaniHeger]

That whole "light blue water" part in Mexico really kills it, before, outside and while in the tombs the atmosphere was gold, but then they break it with a completely different one. I also hate how after you're done, you need to go back all the way that you came from and repeat it all.. That really bugged me, so annoying that almost killed the game for me.

[jajay119]

I think that was a response to the criticism they got in previous games where it took you ages to get in but the exit was right there.

I also think it was the first Uncharted element they copied. However, where Uncharted makes you have combat on the way out TRU just didn't really do anything.

[Valentino]

Originally Posted by jajay119

I've always said the biggest disappointment in TRU is that it is so imbalanced. The first half of the game is excellent. The second half is poor. The design decision of the platforming and puzzles regresses so much. The story completely takes a nose dive and things just start to feel very repetitive. But that's all intensified by how good thr first half was. I think if they had another 6 months to a year on it to improve the last levels and refine the story then it would have been one of the best games in the series.

Out of curiosity, how would you have liked Underworld to proceed from Underworld? Like, would you have liked Amelia to be alive? Would you have liked Avalon to be this mystical paradise where these powerful figures went?

The thing that hinders my enjoyment of Underworld is the camera, buggy controls, and a few funky animations (most animations were really good though) I actually play for the story and for Lara (Keeley)
I really really like that everything doesn't turn out as Lara hoped. It's really tragic. Subverted my expectations anyway. I think people want these happy endings or pay off's and hoped Lara will find her mother, throw her on her back, and get her out of Hellehim

[jajay119]

I would have liked them to marry up the Arthurian myth more with the monomyth story they went with in the end . The imageries and functions of the locations and artifacts between the two games are so different its hard to imagine them coming from the same culture originally.
I also really liked the mystery around the dias technology they clearly worked across space and time, but why? We never found out.

They forgot all about it until the very last cutscene and Excalibur wasnt really mentioned again. Why did we give up on finding more Dias locations? Professor Eddington, who Lara sends Zip and Alastair to at the end of Legend could have been doing that rather rather than being cut. I would have liked to have follow that up initially and have it be the last dais that didn't work or something just so it was more neatly wrapped up and showed that Lara needed to move on rather than just leave it behind inexplicably.

I also think including Natla and the dopple was a mistake. Blowing up Croft manor was very memorable and I still hold TRU's CGI trailer based around it as one of, if not the, best in the series, but having the doppelganger do it made no narrative sense. The dopple was able to bypass the retinal scanner and get into Lara's, up to this point unmentioned , vault with the sole purpose of getting Amanda's wraith stone back. Firstly, considering the dopple can get into Croft manor, fool Zip and get into the vault without any trouble it makes no sense for her to blow up the manor. It would have made more narrative sense if she got in and out quietly and Lara might never have known Amanda had her wraith stone back till later.
Secondly, I don't see why Natla would help her do that. Its a waste of time given she is already Manipulating Lara to where she wants her to go and what she wants her to do by this point. Amanda is all but useless to her after Natla sends Lara to Thailand and sets events in motion. It would have made much more sense if Amanda went to the manor herself, not knowing Lara was there, and had to blow up the manor to gain access the vault. This could have set up a cool boss fight with Amanda using the wraith stone against you before she escapes.

The whole Amanda-Natla thing doesn't make any sense to me. Why was Amanda in Atlantis? Lara had gone through all the tombs and took the scion pieces that lead her from one area to the next. Even then Lara wouldn't have known where Atlantis was if she wasn't chasing Natla down. Was Amanda working for Natla before this? If so why? How has she kept a god trapped for so long? Its not explained. If Natla was allowing herself to be contained then why? Why does she wait till she can manipulate Lara into finding the pieces of Thor's armour when she could have got Amanda to do it? She could not have known she would stumble upon Lara again especially if we are to believe that Underworld is set a decade or so after TR1/ Anniversary. There are too many things that just don't make sense. I would rather they had kept Natla as a stand alone character in TRA and had Amanda be the main enemy of TRU as this would whve kept the story clearer. Trying to marry up too much is what ruined it for me.

With regards to Amelia I would rather there have been a more grand story to that and a linked boss battle. All the way through the Arctic level there are references to the Goddess Hel including her imagery which is a part wraith part human looking creature. Amelia shares that design but there is no explanation as to why. It feels like it should have had more significance. I would have liked to have seen it explained that as Amelia clearly fell into the Eitr but wasn't completely submerged she ended up being a fused being. She had the immortality of the wraiths and some abilities, perhaps even some control over the other thrills, because of it but she maintained some sort of twisted consciousness.

As i said earlier the Diases in Legend obviously work across time as well as space so there is no way of knowing how long Amelia was down there. I would have written it that she had been there so long that whilst the had consciousness it became warped over time to the point where she recognises herself as Hel and she sees Helheim as her home and doesn't remember who Lara is anymore but sees her as an intruder.

This would have led to the final fight which would have been against Amelia where you have to subdue her and escape with Amanda serving a similar role by this point as she does in the final game.

I feel Lara going through that journey to find her mother but have her still be essentially dead and kill her/ leave her there would have been much more tragic and a better payoff for the two games.

[Valentino]

Interesting take. I do quite like it.

I would have liked them to marry up the Arthurian myth more with the monomyth story they went with in the end . The imageries and functions of the locations and artifacts between the two games are so different its hard to imagine them coming from the same culture originally.
I also really liked the mystery around the dias technology they clearly worked across space and time, but why? We never found out.

Oh I see what you mean, I'm surprised I never thought of that aspect more, if at all. The Dias's were a superb aspect of the story. I'd love to have understood them more..... but I kind of like that we don't know all about them. The intrigue is fun.
Apart from the cancelled AoD sequels, I don't think any of the TR games have really carried over the same myth/artefact etc in to the next game. If the King Arthur myth was carried on it would have felt like already trodden ground because Lara discovered the myth was real and she finds King Arthurs body in England.
I hope you can help me on this (if you know): So were all civilizations built on top of the foundations of Atlantis? I know the city of Vilcabamba and Incan culture came in to being after Qualopec fled from the ruins of Atlantis and settled there. And the people of Bhogovati and the Mayans built on top of the Norse architecture (or was it Atlantean?)
And are all artefacts supposedly remnants of Atlantis? i.e Excalibur, Dias's, Thor's hammer?
And the architecture, the lower you go, the deeper you dig, is ultimately Atlantean in design? The foundations of everything?
So I always assumed the Dias's and Excalibur weren't products of King Arthurs time. Nor was Thor's equipment.

I also think including Natla and the dopple was a mistake. Blowing up Croft manor was very memorable and I still hold TRU's CGI trailer based around it as one of, if not the, best in the series, but having the doppelganger do it made no narrative sense. The dopple was able to bypass the retinal scanner and get into Lara's, up to this point unmentioned , vault with the sole purpose of getting Amanda's wraith stone back. Firstly, considering the dopple can get into Croft manor, fool Zip and get into the vault without any trouble it makes no sense for her to blow up the manor. It would have made more narrative sense if she got in and out quietly and Lara might never have known Amanda had her wraith stone back till later.
Secondly, I don't see why Natla would help her do that. Its a waste of time given she is already Manipulating Lara to where she wants her to go and what she wants her to do by this point. Amanda is all but useless to her after Natla sends Lara to Thailand and sets events in motion. It would have made much more sense if Amanda went to the manor herself, not knowing Lara was there, and had to blow up the manor to gain access the vault. This could have set up a cool boss fight with Amanda using the wraith stone against you before she escapes.

Interesting. But so so soooo many motives and actions can be questioned in TR and any game if anyone wants to get too literal. Doppelganger blew up the manor because it was fun, exciting and caused conflict and mayhem between Lara and her colleagues. Zip shooting at Lara..... brilliant. Alister getting shot. Awesome. The stakes went through the roof and pushed Lara's motivation even further. Natla didn't have a say in anything aside from feeding Amanda information. So Dopple blowing the place up made sense because Amanda very clearly wants Lara to suffer. Dopple getting in and out without a trace doesn't sound exciting. But another fight with Amanda and the Wraith stone would have been fun. Or it could have been criticised as "we've already done this before in Legend"
I remember the inclusion of Natla was very positive when she was revealed. Whether fans liked how her inclusion went is up to them.

The whole Amanda-Natla thing doesn't make any sense to me. Why was Amanda in Atlantis? Lara had gone through all the tombs and took the scion pieces that lead her from one area to the next. Even then Lara wouldn't have known where Atlantis was if she wasn't chasing Natla down. Was Amanda working for Natla before this? If so why? How has she kept a god trapped for so long? Its not explained. If Natla was allowing herself to be contained then why? Why does she wait till she can manipulate Lara into finding the pieces of Thor's armour when she could have got Amanda to do it? She could not have known she would stumble upon Lara again especially if we are to believe that Underworld is set a decade or so after TR1/ Anniversary. There are too many things that just don't make sense. I would rather they had kept Natla as a stand alone character in TRA and had Amanda be the main enemy of TRU as this would whve kept the story clearer. Trying to marry up too much is what ruined it for me.

I'm going to quote Eric Lindsrom again only because I think his answers make sense and overrule so many questions ....

Eric: we didn't see how Amanda found Natla, but there are lots of things we didn't see. In stories there are always things you don't see depicted, but must infer or hear about second hand.

I'd say we didn't know the extent of Natla's power. That cell could have been very well enough to contain her. I think it was clear to both Amanda and Natla that Lara was better suited at getting the job done. The gauntlet shaped itself to Lara's hand so from there on out their only hope is Lara. I think these are all questions that people would like answers to rather than questions making no sense. Why is Zip, an American, working in England for Lara? Questions like that are easy.

With regards to Amelia I would rather there have been a more grand story to that and a linked boss battle. All the way through the Arctic level there are references to the Goddess Hel including her imagery which is a part wraith part human looking creature. Amelia shares that design but there is no explanation as to why. It feels like it should have had more significance. I would have liked to have seen it explained that as Amelia clearly fell into the Eitr but wasn't completely submerged she ended up being a fused being. She had the immortality of the wraiths and some abilities, perhaps even some control over the other thrills, because of it but she maintained some sort of twisted consciousness.

Yeah the similarities were interesting. I really thought that was Amelia's face carved in to the gates of Hellheim (confirmed its not). Regarding the references to the Goddess Hel, the only visual reference I can recollect is her face on the gates of Hellheim and a note Lara makes in her journal. (But Lara makes notes of all Norse characters and places. Valkyrie etc) Maybe the design was just a parallel?

As i said earlier the Diases in Legend obviously work across time as well as space so there is no way of knowing how long Amelia was down there. I would have written it that she had been there so long that whilst the had consciousness it became warped over time to the point where she recognises herself as Hel and she sees Helheim as her home and doesn't remember who Lara is anymore but sees her as an intruder.

Wow yes thar sounds even sadder. What if Amelia was transported to a time before the gate was built? What if she'd been there for millions of year. Maybe she was the inspiration for Hel. Lol i dunno.

I feel Lara going through that journey to find her mother but have her still be essentially dead and kill her/ leave her there would have been much more tragic and a better payoff for the two games.

Lara did do all that though. Minus any boss fight with her Mother. The horrifying look on Lara's face and the deluded sentiment she has to tell herself (“your not my mother, my mother died a long time ago”)was kind of bone chilling.
If there is one hiccup I would point out, is the fact Amelia happens to own a broach (the Galali key) that happens to be a key to forging Excalibur, and she just so happens to plane crash and stumble on the Dias's which are connected to Excalibur and the broach she wears. It's not a glaring coincidence I've realised till recently.

All in all I think all the story beats are there. Maybe it was tweaks and fleshed out parts the story needed.

[Raider42]

I just finished replaying Underworld after a long time and I love it. I had to come here and express my appreciation for this game, which I know is not common among fans

Of course there's issues like gitches, the camera, the clunky and simplistic combat, but I appreciate the things it does right for me. To me it's the last TR that actually feels like a TR game. The feeling of isolation, the more open level design with some backtracking. A lot of things that I didn't quite like of Legend they took them out like QTEs and being overall less action oriented. The music, riding the bike in exotic locations and being an actual part of the traversal like in the classics, not for annoying action sequences like in Legend. Lara's attitude and remarks to the camera when she enters a new place. The grounded yet acrobatic movements made the long stretches of platforming feel fun all the time. The almost lack of cutscenes that kept the pacing going... Heck I even loved the final "boss" being more of a puzzle-platformer than an actual fight. All in all felt like a refreshing little oasis in a desert after replaying the Survivor trilogy recently.

It definitely lacked some things like more puzzle difficulty (but well this trend started with Legend so it just became progressively worse), maybe different supernatural enemies since those blue zombies become repetitive fast and the story which as some of you guys have pointed out didn't quite hit the mark but I still think it was ok.

I really liked the attempt to bring both the Arturian and Norse myths into a sort of "real world" explanation and put Atlantis as the core of many of these myths, that's a concept that I love seeing in any media. I have mixed feelings about bringing Natla back, I don't hate it, but I'm not sure how well it gels, like jajay119 says a lot of things don't make sense if you scrutinize them. Also I felt she was way underdeveloped but I liked what they had going on with Amanda being one of those complicated, villain but not really a villain character.

Unpopular opinion but it's definitely one of my favorite TRs, maybe my favorite from the LAU trilogy.

[Cat Woman]

A while ago I was able to download TRL, TRA, and TRU for xBox 360 to my xBox One. I recently saw that there were DLCs for TRU (Beneath the Ashes, and Lara’s Shadow). I don’t think they came with the physical copies I had, so these will give me some new TR games to play. so happy.

Edit: Right now playing TRU - I’m at Level 6 Andaman Sea - Rituals Old.

Edit: Those who played these - did u enjoy them?