Rise of the Tomb Raider General Chat

[Linoshi Croft]

I think there should be some ledges within platforming but just where they make sense though.

[tomee]

Originally Posted by Bishop Knight

I think you misunderstand what a reboot is. Very ignorant of you. A reboot is not the same as re-imagining a character. It's retelling the story from the begining again.

reimagine - to imagine again or anew; especially : to form a new conception of : re-create

The term reboot, comes from the computer term to restart a computer. So, in context of intellectual property, a reboot is to restart not reimagine the series. You try to act intelligent by suggesting that people who don't agree with the new direction don't get what a reboot is, but clearly, you are the dumbass.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reboot_(fiction)

In serial fiction, to reboot means to discard all continuity in an established series in order to recreate a character, timeline, and/or backstory from the beginning.

Also, thank you for the nice remark. It was really necessary, right?

Prove that it is small. Past sales figures prove otherwise. Again, the game has survived for how many years? You think that's because of casual non-fan gamers? And I pointed out that I, like many, don't always sign up to forums for franchises that we are big fans of. That means there are lots of other fans out there that you are not aware of. No franchise survives without it's core fans. It has never happened. You keep assuming that the fans are only here in these forums.

Prove that it's significant.
Past sale figures? Wait what? If I look at it, I can see that there's a decline. What is that supposed to prove? And no, I don't assume the fans are here in the forum, I assume the hardcore fanbase, that includes TRFers and non-TRFers too are still a minority.

Your new to the comic and gaming scene aren't you? If not, a good cosplayer and fan art keep a product in the public's conscience. That's why companies try to appeal to their base. They're the best group to get the word out. Tron Legacy had a big campain to get fans excited and for them to promote the movie. CD even hired Meagan Marie because they realize this. Again, you have no idea what your talking about and are a dumbass.

Yup, fanart can be great, cosplay, not so much. I stand by my point. Most of the people who are interested in cosplay are just immature boys who want to see hot women.

And again, thank you for the nice remark at the end. Very mature of you.

No one says you have to. But, that desire to appeal to others is a perfect example of why you accept this new direction for Tomb Raider. You want so desperately for TR and yourself to be liked by the average person. You want non-fans to take TR seriously. And so, you defend anything that has the name Tomb Raider attached.

Uhm, no. I did criticise TR'13 because of it's stereotypic characters, lack of puzzles and overdone combat. I just don't think it deserves the amount of hate it gets here and for that reason I'm going to continue defend it.

No, that's what you claim. I say it needs to appeal to the fan base first. The franchise needs to be Tomb Raider and not appeal to the general audience. They should be distinguishing Tomb Raider from the other products, not imitating them. It's not necessary for Tomb Raider to be a AAA title. The only people who care about that are shareholders and "fans" who what others to so desperately like what they like. To be taken seriously.

I answered to this one bit hastily, apologi

Actually, it was developed by a new and small studio, so yes it was, in fact, an indy company. Core and Eidos were not, by any stretch, a big company like EA. They were the little guy taking on the giant with something truly different. Now, they are absorbed by a giant publisher trying to appeal to the average gamer, by imitating other products and themes. Seems I remember someone from CD claiming Bow and Arrows are really the in thing now. Funny how Tomb Raider was once unique. Now it's trying to be prestigious and a AAA title.

In the 90's game developer studios were much smaller. And indy developer is a developer who doesn't receive financial support from a publisher. Core Design did, from Eidos.

[trfanX34]

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft

I think there should be some ledges within platforming but just where they make sense though.

Same. The platforming in TR9 was a lot of fun, but I missed the ledges a little.

[Bishop Knight]

Originally Posted by _Ninja_

Come on, this is petty semantics. Most reboots reinterpret both character and setting and it is commonly understood without getting anal about dictionary definitions.

Did anyone seriously misunderstand what CD was going for? From the very first footage it was clear things will change.

Most reboots try to stay true to the established character. That said, some do reimagine the characters and setting. But, most don't. They might focus on different aspects of the character's personality but they are always recognizable as the same character. Even if they change the costume/clothing of the character. But, I have a huge problem with reimagining a franchise. Start a new franchise if you don't like the character the way they are.

CD claimed it was a reboot. They wanted a clean slate to retell her story without all the conflicting plots. While, I don't think it's necessary, I understand that desire. But, when they reimagined the character, that's when it's no longer a reboot. It's another character all together, which should have it's own franchise. Now, by the end of the game she does resemble the old Lara a little more, which lends itself to being a reboot and not a reimagining.

But, claiming "it's a reboot" doesn't mean we have to accept the changes and there for, we shouldn't express what we don't like. Several people keep regurgitating that line as if that means it was the right choice and we should just accept it. I've said this several times already, Lara's character and appearance was not the problem. If you feel it was and didn't like the character that way, then are you not a fan.

fan - An ardent devotee; an enthusiast.

So, how can you claim to be a fan of the previous version of Lara and TR, but not like what it was and want it to change? That goes against the definition of a fan. Your a fan of what you wanted it to become, but not of what it was. Saying that you can change the character's personality and still say it's the same character is intellectually dishonest.

LOL, Tomee, you used a wiki page that has this warning - "This article has multiple issues". And the Wiki has been biased on many accounts. Look up reboot in, I don't know, the Dictionary.

[larafan25]

Originally Posted by jajay119

It's not that I don't care... but it was a lot less prevalent in the reboot than the LAU trilogy so it wasn't really and issue for me. It was kinda annoying that they were creeping in when they weren't needed or wouldn't be there naturally though. Tbh I think they're just CD's 'thing' and we're never gonna see the end of them.

But. Don't you feel like..hmm.

When I see white ledges, I don't immediately think of hand-holding or highlighting the path. What first springs to my mind is somewhat flawed and non-immersion platforming system.

Why does a game about assassinating people have a far more incredible interaction system (when it comes to amount and consistency) than a game that is a platformer at heart, and has been around for sooooooooooo long.

To me, when I see the ledge climb now, I immediately think "tacked-on" (well the ledges are tacked on). I think of a game that wanted to have some climbing but didn't want to be a platformer, and so they through in some minimal interaction and the sum of their climbing is giant chunks of "hold on" placed here and there.

It's kind of sad to me. Though the reboot has definitely removed almost all of the ledge-hopping and white ledges.

I just would rather they get rid of the tacked-on ledge shimmying altogether so that they can find a better way to define their platforming world. Simply remove the ledge-clamber and tell the player (like we don't already know) "don't fall in the giant gaps of negative space that look deadly, try to stand on solid platforms". It's the same logic used in the classic games, any platformer.

But, do you guys find jumping from one platform to another more engaging and fun than jumping from a ledge to a ledge?

Originally Posted by dantedmc

I hate those. Despite the fact we've been asking them forever to get rid of ledges/useless hints, they did not. Hope not in the upcoming game.

Indeed. I think they'll be gone in TR10. I pray.

Originally Posted by trfanX34

Same. Thenplstforming in TR9 was a lot of fun, but I missed the ledges a little.

What did you miss about them?

[Linoshi Croft]

Originally Posted by larafan25

Why does a game about assassinating people have a far more incredible interaction system (when it comes to amount and consistency) than a game that is a platformer at heart, and has been around for sooooooooooo long.

Because it lacks depth? It's literally just holding a button and the rest is done for you. It looks less designed I'll give you that, but is it a better system? Not gameplay wise.

[_Ninja_]

Too bad I can no longer find the interview. But they've said their testers didn't know where to go in Shanty Town.

[jajay119]

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft

I think there should be some ledges within platforming but just where they make sense though.

I think when people are talking about ledges the mean something like this which is so in your face and unnatural to the environment. Normal ledges and even cracks and crevices blend in much better. They may be as unnatural and the white ledges but they're harder to spot making you think more about the path you choose as opposed to that situation where it was ; 'white ledge, I clearly need to jump at that'. Ledges yes. White 'come here and touch me like a cheap ho' ledges, no thanks.

Originally Posted by Bishop Knight

But, when they reimagined the character, that's when it's no longer a reboot. It's another character all together, which should have it's own franchise. Now, by the end of the game she does resemble the old Lara a little more, which lends itself to being a reboot and not a reimagining.

Can I ask you what you find so un-Lara-like about reboot Lara? As personally I think AOD Lara and CD's trilogy Lara were somewhat different from Lara in the first 5 games. So I'm just trying to understand your anger at this change.

Originally Posted by larafan25

But. Don't you feel like..hmm.

When I see white ledges, I don't immediately think of hand-holding or highlighting the path. What first springs to my mind is somewhat flawed and non-immersion platforming system.

I do, when it is the situation like the picture I posted above. When I saw them they did irk me somewhat that they'd grafted this more realistic and expansive world just to stick white ledges in there again. But, they were few and far between not the crux of the entire platforming system like it was in Legend and Anniversary (TRU had a good go at moving away from that in the first half so I'm not including it ). So it was more forgivable I guess.

[trfanX34]

Originally Posted by larafan25

What did you miss about them?

The platforming aspect they provided. In TR9 it's all about jumping from platform to platform and climbing. I love the platforming in TR9 but I miss the shimmying and jumping between ledges.

[TheRCroft]

Originally Posted by _Ninja_

Too bad I can no longer find the interview. But they've said their testers didn't know where to go in Shanty Town.

I do remember that as well. It annoys me, though, because it wouldn't be that hard to find the path to the gate.