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Old 30-06-19, 22:54   #1
Samz
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Default What I think can be done to fix the Reboot's Combat system.

Here's what I think can be done to salvage a Cover shooter TR.

1. Enemies only drop ammo for their weapon and maybe handgun ammo if they're using something like a shotgun/rifle, with maybe the occasional explosive drop, having it so that you can get a whole bunch of bullets and resources from enemies who don't even use guns makes it too easy.

2. Expanded weapons with a weapon limit, I'm not saying for a COD-style 2 weapon limit (I generally hate those.) but 3-4 weapons but all those rather pointless weapon alternate versions? make them their own weapons with ammo sorted by calibre or exclusive to each gun or at least more specific than what we currently have with 4 types.

With a weapon limit and alot more separate weapons that you have to trade in the field, with the removal of enemies dropping tones of supplies like point 1, suddenly you have to choose what weapons to take, so a weaker gun you might not ordinarily use might have more consistent ammo pick-ups, so you have to make a decision of effectiveness/ammo, adding hidden pick-ups of weapons/ammo would also work well with this system.

Maybe even make melee weapons part of the slot-system with Lara using weak punches/kicks generally that aren't really too useful with the melee weapons dispatching of foes in 1-2 hits so they're good for saving ammo/dealing with melee enemies.

Dual Wielding could require having two one-handed weapons of any time (So mixed dual wielding) in exchange for being only effective at close range and having to give up two slots.

3. Hip/Blind fire of some description, the zoom in is awkward enough, having it be your ONLY method of firing makes it worse, a sort of blind-fire (either manual/auto while being extremely inaccurate at range) is needed, more so if anything smaller than the wolves of the reboot are introduced, they're already a pain to hit with the cover-system designed camera so anything like a spider would be near-impossible without having to run a good distance back.)

The fact Lara must ALWAYS stand-up to fire results in cheap deaths, as a melee enemy rushing her after the player has already been hit (more so in 2013 where alot of early battles have only a single piece of cover that the player can really use.), you couldn't crouch behind cover and fire as he got close neither blind-fire, if you don't want blind-firing being OP then either make it only able to really hit at point blank or being only able to fire blindly straight ahead and unable to aim it.

3. Less aim-bot enemies, more forgiving health and making Lara less accurate when not using a bolt action rifle or any other sniper weapon.


The way the cover system simply works, with it being forced on by enemies that are super accurate, hurts the combat significantly, every single encounter HAS to be a fair arena as Lara being out in the open is death and any enemy in the open is also pretty much dead, adding a the ability to crouch/prone would also help as then the player can take cover more easily behind the environment.

In other games with at least an cover system but more forgiving enemy accuracy (though it should be noted these games don't make the enemy unable to hit you while you're in cover.) , such as Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter or The Getaway, they're able to have non-standard enemy encounters, such as the player being caught under fire from multiple angles, enemies with a height elevation meaning they have to be prioritised or ambushing the player down a pathway with no cover, as the fact the enemy won't immediately kill them means the player has to react fast, either heading straight for the nearest piece of cover or returning fire.

4. Possibly removing regenerating health or at least, making it so only a certain percentage of Lara's health is restored.


You could argue that not making every enemy super-accurate makes it so Lara can just tank damage, so have it be that since it's now avoidable (with blindfire so you don't get shot hitting a guy rushing you and enemies not hitting you the very frame you leave cover.) so have taking damage be a consequence.

Getaway 1 had regenerating health require you to stand up next to a wall and it took nearly 20 seconds if you were almost completely dead, , the second game let you do it when crouched behind cover but you could only recover your health so many times before you couldn't heal on your own anymore and had to rely on wall-mounted health kits placed around the locations but generally were limited in number, so avoiding as much damage as you could was a good idea.

Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter had a difficulty where you always died in 1 hit and even when on normal, Mitchell could only actually survive getting hit once or twice, 3 if you were lucky and healing could only be done at ammo crates /resupply crate and truck, ammo crates were generally only encounted once or twice per level and only healed about 50-ish percent a single time while resupplying was rare and usually only at the beginning of a level/mid-point of a long one.

Some games split your health into several segments instead of a uninterrupted bar, with the individual segments regenerating while others only let you regenerate a small percentage (such as 25%) without using health items, so while you can't get stuck, it will get harder, TR underworld even used this system.

So while damage was consistently avoidable in these games, the punishment for actually getting hit was severe and long lasting, you get hit and you have to carry those injuries for the rest of the section. (or a time waster in the first getaway game.)

5. Ditch the upgrades.

They're tedious RPG filler upgrades in a game that isn't even a RPG, remove them entirely or add a handful of secret upgrades that are meaningful.

6. Use that supernatural element.

Right now the reboot's usage of the supernatural is quite laughable at best when it comes to the actual gameplay, sure Himiko does weather control stuff but that doesn't actually result in anything gameplay wise, do you fight weird elemental enemies? nope, Does Himiko give a unique boss fight, maybe sending thunder down onto Lara like the Great Grey One from The Prophecy GBA Game? nope, its a quick time event of shooting an old dude.

Add supernatural weapons with weird mechanics, add supernatural enemies with weird mechanics, Electric enemies that shock Lara and make her ragdoll on hit, Fire enemies that set her on fire forcing you to stop, drop 'n roll and maybe a sort of supernatural healer enemy or one that can teleport its allies around the battlefield.

7. More varied encounters.

Ditch the "Every fight is an arena" concept, it gets old real fast, with less accurate enemies and Lara, have encounters where the player is surprised and only fast-aiming will prevent injury, re-add turrets from Legend as a risky but powerful tool that the player can use at their discretion and in general, have less fights consist solely of Lara and a bunch of guys pop-tarting out of the exact same cover positions for the entirety of the fight, have enemies properly flanking Lara with somewhat decent AI that can flank the player but not in the same way everytime, FEAR got that well, with the AI not really taking the exact same routes in each encounter, adding a dynamic factor to combat that keeps it fresh.

Maybe add extra pieces of gear to facilitate less arena-like engagements, smoke grenades so turrets/snipers can't aim at you, flash grenades to stun enemies so you can rush them and maybe Lara can pick up a shield enemy's shield put can only use 1 handed weapons while doing so, actually have fights where Lara has to properly push through enemies instead of holding her ground, moving til' the next wave spawns, repeat hiding in cover, maybe even with a timed sequence where taking your time and playing perfectly save will get you killed, so the player has to use all their tools to fight as aggressively as possible or maybe even a few sections with alot more enemies than normal but you have allies that fight alongside you. (as in actually gameplay along-side you, not "we're fighting them but it's mostly off-screen.)
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Old 30-06-19, 23:01   #2
NoahCrofRaider
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I agree with these ideas. They sound like changes that would spice things up and add some variety, and thatís just what the combat needs imo.

I especially love the idea of only having one version per weapons instead of these numerous editions that leave me confused. I just want to have one weapon that isnít necessarily perfect but can do well enough in an sudden encounter. Like the Uzis in TR1-3 for example, theyíre powerful and fast, but they burn through ammo crazy fast and caution is important.
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Old 30-06-19, 23:03   #3
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Originally Posted by NoahCrofRaider View Post
I agree with these ideas. They sound like changes that would spice things up and add some variety, and that’s just what the combat needs imo.

I especially love the idea of only having one version per weapons instead of these numerous editions that leave me confused. I just want to have one weapon that isn’t necessarily perfect but can do well enough in an sudden encounter. Like the Uzis in TR1-3 for example, they’re powerful and fast, but they burn through ammo crazy fast and caution is important.
Not one version but a handful of meaningful ones.

So maybe two SMGs for instance, the MP5 as an accurate one while the Uzi's are better at tearing through targets at close range and also dual-able.

A sawn-off shotgun that one-hits most targets but has COD-shotgun range with a normal one that has a much more realistic range but requires multiple shots on armoured/supernatural foes more often.

The problem with the reboot is not only do these all share ammo (so you never have to swap, which requires a campfire anyway so its not like you might trade your weapon for an enemies mid-combat) but there's WAY too many of them, so it gets bloated with a bunch of extremely similar weapons with a few slightly different stats or in 2013, literally just stat-increases.

A small amount of variations is fine. (Heck thats what the magnums in TR1/A and the Automatic pistols in TR2 were essentially, limited ammo but more effective versions of the basic pistols.)
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Old 30-06-19, 23:24   #4
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Originally Posted by Samz View Post
Not one version but a handful of meaningful ones.

So maybe two SMGs for instance, the MP5 as an accurate one while the Uzi's are better at tearing through targets at close range and also dual-able.

A sawn-off shotgun that one-hits most targets but has COD-shotgun range with a normal one that has a much more realistic range but requires multiple shots on armoured/supernatural foes more often.

The problem with the reboot is not only do these all share ammo (so you never have to swap, which requires a campfire anyway so its not like you might trade your weapon for an enemies mid-combat) but there's WAY too many of them, so it gets bloated with a bunch of extremely similar weapons with a few slightly different stats or in 2013, literally just stat-increases.

A small amount of variations is fine. (Heck thats what the magnums in TR1/A and the Automatic pistols in TR2 were essentially, limited ammo but more effective versions of the basic pistols.)
Yeah, I just donít want a ton of variations like in the reboot. I never know what to choose, so I usually just go with the default weapon. I donít mind a variation or two, because of weapons like the Magnums as you mentioned, but I donít want so many where Iím lost.
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Old 03-07-19, 10:03   #5
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I honestly think in adventure games like TR combat should be as simple as possible. Uncharted did this perfectly when it comes to simplicity and logic, you can simply pick up enemies weapons and ammo for them, no crafting and complications. I hated the extremely unrealistic moment of Lara on the freezing island not grabbing a jacket from one of the Solarii and not picking up their weapons. Instead she goes around looking for crates and finding arrows all over the place... The focus should be on that combat being intertwined with enviromental puzzles and tombs in creative ways. If I would have to pick one thing from the Reboot series that I wan't completely gone it's the RPG elements around weapons. Make weapons as simple as possible but keep the skill tree which would than translate into the next game instead of having to learn some stuf all over again Instead of crates with ammo and crafting materials add even more lore, like maybe spots where Lara can notice smth about the enviroment, not a clue for progressing the game but just lore about the tombs, locations, people, myths etc and make a voice memo of it or smth idk (again, Uncharted is the one that did this already but whatever)
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Old 03-07-19, 10:58   #6
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I agree with all of those ideas.

I love the secret upgrades idea. Just find some few useful objects well hidden in the map like a laser or a scope, things like that.
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Old 03-07-19, 14:12   #7
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1. Enemies only drop ammo for their weapons: I do like the idea that enemies should only drop ammo for the weapons that they have. I think this should also be the case that if an enemy is chucking grenades at you, for example, you should be able to pick up any grenades that had but didn't throw.

2. Expanded weapons with a weapon limit: I do agree that the number of alternate weapons that we have is bloated at this point. I'd really like to seem them pair it down.

3. Blind fire: Never really been a big fan of blind fire but can see it's uses. Change craft ammo (ps4 wise) L1+R1 or 2 with R1 or 2 being blind fire or blind alt fire.

4. Making Lara less accurate: Whereas there are weapons that are going to be more accurate than others I don't think that her accuracy should be limited by weapon type. I mentioned in another post maybe having her default be stance be looser/less accurate but being able to switch to a more focused/braced stance to bring her accuracy back to where it is now. Perhaps in the looser/less accurate stance she is more defensive whereas the more focused/braced stance she is more exposed.

5. Regenerating health: I do like the idea of a core of health being able to regenerate as it would be more representative of fatigue whereas a certain level of damage would start causing physical wounds that would need to be tended to. I would also think in such a system the regenerating during combat would be significantly less than while walking about. Perhaps you would also have to take traversal into account in terms of this core of regenerating health?
6. Upgrades: I don't think we need to ditch the upgrades but I do agree that as they are the system is a bit bloated. Less, more meaningful upgrades that are harder to complete.

7. Supernatural enemies: I don't think I'd call the use of the supernatural to be laughable but I do agree that they are limiting themselves. I would like to see them really dive into myth and the paranormal legends for the supernatural enemies.

8. More varied encounters: Agreed.
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Old 03-07-19, 22:40   #8
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Another thing I honestly think would make things a lot more fun would be acrobatics.

I have a lot more fun jumping around in Legend than I do playing with TR2013's rather unimpressive combat.
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Old 07-07-19, 00:59   #9
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Tomb Raider already had plenty of shooting. Keep it automatic aim. Give us the opportunity to run behind walls, and crouch behind blocks, rocks, stumps, pillars, etc... while enemy intelligence remains somewhat passive (humans, not animals). This would be more dramatic if the inventory was live. But that's... pushing it.

Keep the walk function as stealth movement.

Give us more hidden pickup items for stealth kills like in Chronicles.

Rolling balls that stagnate into pushblocks which can be shoved over edges and onto standing enemies.

Let us K.O. human enemies by dropping onto them.
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Old 07-07-19, 01:05   #10
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Overall I happy with the combat but would certainly want to keep Shadow's stealth approach over 2013 wave style encounters.

For me could do with the sideways jump back but definitely in free play rather than a slow-mo adrenaline dodge. An increase in supernatural and non-human enemies would also help.
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