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Old 14-07-21, 09:12   #911
reborninshadow
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Interesting... but what would be its purpose?
I mean, let's say, the player has an active gun; this cutscene plays out with said gun. Inventory gets emptied gunwise. Player descend to the dancefloor to pick it up and suddenly all the guns are back? (normally we'd have 3 or 4 different by that time)
Or alternatively they wanted to endorse the stealth mechanics + melee combat, without going after that dropped weapon... maybe that unused switch in the DJ booth would've played some role in it too.
Nevertheless it's interesting to look at their tought process.





I just saw tis video. Some of them were new to me, like the dog's ability to climb.
I used to cycle trough almost all of the character's animations and I don't remember seeing that.

The most important is the biodome creatures.
First all three plants are still in the game, two of them are still animated, and one of them can harm Lara.
My questions:
- would it be possible to add/edit the gas/plant's data to be able to harm Lara?
-the flytrap like plant can harm Lara, but still can be seen later on in the level; can that plant be replaced (since it became static object) with the animated one?
- finally do you think, or can you check it out if the giant flower still has its animations?

Those are tiny things, but it would add a lot to the game's atmosphere !

Oh, one more question: what do you think about the disabled eye movements? Do you think it can be reenabled? Not right now, but maybe in the future?
I think originally, you would have no weapons until the club level and they didn't want you to get out of the level having a gun still so Lara drops it and most importantly the weapon breaks (not very clear in the animation) so there's no point in going back down to get it again.

I have 0 knowledge about the eye animations but I remember someone saying that it would be hard to include them.

As for the other enemies, maybe? I haven't checked really and I want to focus on getting my mod done before experimenting with other stuff too much.
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Old 14-07-21, 13:49   #912
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From what I understand about the eye movements, Core physically disabled them in every single level (except that one instance at the end of the game while talking to Karel).

I've heard it would actually be possible to restore them by someone with the know-how, but they'd have to go inside of every single level and change it for every single person in the game for every scene, not just for Lara. So it'd be a lot of work for one person to do alone.

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Originally Posted by reborninshadow View Post
I think originally, you would have no weapons until the club level and they didn't want you to get out of the level having a gun still so Lara drops it and most importantly the weapon breaks (not very clear in the animation) so there's no point in going back down to get it again.
I knew about the not having guns too soon from previous discussions, but I've been thinking about something related to that. Do you suppose that after the guns were added to the first couple of levels, that that's why they had so many pickups as an odd assortment of ammo for guns you wouldn't even have then? All you even find over the first two levels before Industrial Rooftops is V Packer (Shotgun) and K2 Impactor (Shock Pistol) ammo.

It sort of makes sense though. They had to put something there I suppose besides hundreds of health items. Plus you could potentially break certain events having ammo too early, like the police in Derelict Apartment Block.

Last edited by Jathom95; 14-07-21 at 15:25.
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Old 14-07-21, 16:48   #913
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So in the retail version we get an empty mv-9 gun in the first level, the prima guide version mentions one of the dual weapons in derelict apartment block. One of the documents published by Ash mentions the cutscene of Lara losing her desert ranger in the club, it was deleted once they decided to add weapons to previous levels.

We know that at some point Lara coild buy (lethal?) weapons from Daniel Rennes in his pawnshop (let’s not count the scrapyard because as far as we know the level was scrapped in the concept stage and it was Anton Gris, the gym trainer, who would sell weapons to Lara, Daniel only had the maps and explosives)

But if we’re going back that far back in development…

…One of Murti’s documents mentions that the first leathal weapon would have been the one she finds in her return to Von croy’s apartment. That means no shotgun in tomb of ancients.

My question is, if someone was to mod the game and change the pickups and remove the early weapons, how far could the player go without lethal weapons?
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Old 14-07-21, 17:23   #914
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Originally Posted by KIKO View Post
So in the retail version we get an empty mv-9 gun in the first level, the prima guide version mentions one of the dual weapons in derelict apartment block. One of the documents published by Ash mentions the cutscene of Lara losing her desert ranger in the club, it was deleted once they decided to add weapons to previous levels.

We know that at some point Lara coild buy (lethal?) weapons from Daniel Rennes in his pawnshop (let’s not count the scrapyard because as far as we know the level was scrapped in the concept stage and it was Anton Gris, the gym trainer, who would sell weapons to Lara, Daniel only had the maps and explosives)

But if we’re going back that far back in development…

…One of Murti’s documents mentions that the first leathal weapon would have been the one she finds in her return to Von croy’s apartment. That means no shotgun in tomb of ancients.

My question is, if someone was to mod the game and change the pickups and remove the early weapons, how far could the player go without lethal weapons?
Actually, that is what I'm planning on doing in my mod as an extra option with alternate gameplay but what I'm planning is still giving the player the Desert Ranger in the club but with barely enough ammo to get through the level so you can't use it really after the level is done. The first lethal pickup will be the vectors in louvre galleries since Lara has them in cutscenes later and there's no better place to give them. Then the pickups will continue as the same pretty much.
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Old 14-07-21, 17:28   #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIKO View Post

But if we’re going back that far back in development…

…One of Murti’s documents mentions that the first leathal weapon would have been the one she finds in her return to Von croy’s apartment. That means no shotgun in tomb of ancients.

My question is, if someone was to mod the game and change the pickups and remove the early weapons, how far could the player go without lethal weapons?
It would be difficult, but not impossible I think. There's not too many places even in retail where Lara gets particularly overwhelmed with enemies all at once. Le Serpent Rouge is one of them. I think the biggest hangup would be having to rely on hand to hand for a big portion of the early game. Though that's probably what Core intended to do honestly with all of the mentions of not having lethal weapons too often before a certain point.

We know that they intended to have a much bigger focus on stealth elements than previous games so it does make sense that Lara wouldn't have had much access to weapons early on. Even what you mentioned about Von Croy's Apartment. Remember that Louvre Galleries was originally intended to be a pure stealth level where if Lara was caught she'd be moved to a holding cell and have her weapons taken away from her. Even some of the other pickups she had at that point. That's the reason the extra crowbar behind the locked door in that level is there. It was meant to give her access to it again if she lost it through that event, I believe.
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Old 14-07-21, 18:47   #916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reborninshadow View Post
Actually, that is what I'm planning on doing in my mod as an extra option with alternate gameplay but what I'm planning is still giving the player the Desert Ranger in the club but with barely enough ammo to get through the level so you can't use it really after the level is done. The first lethal pickup will be the vectors in louvre galleries since Lara has them in cutscenes later and there's no better place to give them. Then the pickups will continue as the same pretty much.
That sounds great! And a lot of work too. Say, are you also able to replace enemies and move them around? I know Janice for example used to be in a different location. I also think the policemen in Parisian Ghetto that sasho re-activated in one of his mods, shouldn’t turn up until somebody called the cops on Lara, possibly Pierre…

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Originally Posted by Jathom95 View Post
It would be difficult, but not impossible I think. There's not too many places even in retail where Lara gets particularly overwhelmed with enemies all at once. Le Serpent Rouge is one of them. I think the biggest hangup would be having to rely on hand to hand for a big portion of the early game. Though that's probably what Core intended to do honestly with all of the mentions of not having lethal weapons too often before a certain point.

We know that they intended to have a much bigger focus on stealth elements than previous games so it does make sense that Lara wouldn't have had much access to weapons early on. Even what you mentioned about Von Croy's Apartment. Remember that Louvre Galleries was originally intended to be a pure stealth level where if Lara was caught she'd be moved to a holding cell and have her weapons taken away from her. Even some of the other pickups she had at that point. That's the reason the extra crowbar behind the locked door in that level is there. It was meant to give her access to it again if she lost it through that event, I believe.
I never thought about it that way about the extra crowbar but it makes sense. I also think getting to the Louvre without lethal weapons should be duable. It should be easy to avoid the dogs in the graveyard and the rats in the sewers.
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Old 14-07-21, 18:58   #917
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I never thought about it that way about the extra crowbar but it makes sense. I also think getting to the Louvre without lethal weapons should be duable.
I always tought it was added, because the first level originally could be completed without it, if you did complete it without it, you wouldn't be able to progress trough the Louvre. (since there's no alternative way) So they made the level failsafe.
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Old 14-07-21, 19:05   #918
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I always tought it was added, because the first level originally could be completed without it, if you did complete it without it, you wouldn't be able to progress trough the Louvre. (since there's no alternative way) So they made the level failsafe.
It was included in the beta training area as well, it's still there on the ground. Though yes, I think through that route you didn't need it. There was only one non-essential locked door through that area.

It was probably for both reasons. If it either got taken away, or you completed Parisian Backstreets without it before it became mandatory to complete the that level.

Last edited by Jathom95; 14-07-21 at 19:07.
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Old 14-07-21, 19:27   #919
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More unused Kurtis footage.

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Old 26-07-21, 22:06   #920
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Found this little thing on AoD PS2 version:



It feels like a bug, but I don't know... kinda weird
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