www.tombraiderforums.com  

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Tomb Raider Series > Shadow of the Tomb Raider

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 25-11-20, 03:52   #30271
VictorXD
Relic Hunter
 
VictorXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: ฿-₳-฿-¥-⍸L-⌽-₦
Posts: 9,294
Default

^ I don't mind them as much as I do in the LAU trilogy, I just think that it was something no one asked for and didn't make any sense to bring it back in the first place, and unfortunately their inclusion and focus cheapened what they were trying to do with Lara's character. It was decision that didn't make much sense in the first place and in the end backfired horribly for what they wanted to achieve.

But as for their actual characters? I don't really hold a negative opinion on them on the survivor trilogy, and I'm actually in the minority that liked how they were handled in shadow. It really just is a matter of beating a dead horse when there was absolutely no need.
__________________
Persecution to all non Luds Gate believers may God's wrath fall upon you sinners
VictorXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-20, 05:36   #30272
LateRaider
Professor
 
LateRaider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ship Pierrson
Posts: 2,827
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorXD View Post
^ I don't mind them as much as I do in the LAU trilogy, I just think that it was something no one asked for and didn't make any sense to bring it back in the first place, and unfortunately their inclusion and focus cheapened what they were trying to do with Lara's character. It was decision that didn't make much sense in the first place and in the end backfired horribly for what they wanted to achieve.

But as for their actual characters? I don't really hold a negative opinion on them on the survivor trilogy, and I'm actually in the minority that liked how they were handled in shadow. It really just is a matter of beating a dead horse when there was absolutely no need.
100% cosigned. i disagree with you on the small bit that their inclusion made it all about them but otherwise yes, our opinions are identical
__________________
"Come, let's get off this roof, and... I will buy you a milkshake."
LateRaider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-20, 05:40   #30273
Zsott
Archaeologist
 
Zsott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: France
Posts: 2,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear View Post
In Shadow Lara overcomes her past (in particular she finally completely accepts the death of their parents (as shown in the ending when she gets the power of the box and the key combined) and she defeats Trinity once and for all.
Nice story, tell me more... but wait: we are stuck with her problems since 2006. ...or 2003 if we count the first movie too.

Quote:
From now on she will cherish the mysteries of the world and start exploring because SHE wants to, not because of her father, not to end Trinity.
Hmm... she literally said this (minus the trinity bit) at the end of RoTR. Yet nothing happened. So there goes the 'deep' storytelling.
SoTR's and in general the latest trilogy's storytelling just as deep as a frozen bag of french fries. But each to their own.

Quote:
I don't get why some people would have preferred a cheesy moment where she would have wore shorts and raised her dual pistols saying "I'm the Tomb Raider"...
I wonder what do you know about the previous iteration(s) of Lara, because right now it seems you -just like Crystal D- have a misconception of Tomb Raider.
Tomb Raider was not a trait, or a person to become to.
It was a nickname, put on Lara by journalists (not real life ones, but in her universe) because of the artefacts and places she found.
Her bio even stated, that she was despised by archeologists, because of her carelessnes, not to mention how she gunned down of believed to be exinct or endangered species.
Everything she did, or found was because she wanted to, for her own amusement. She had no ulterior motive, or big meanings for her actions. However when she screwed up, she tried to fix it. Reboot Lara doesn't work like that at all. Her motives are totally different.
There was no need of an origin story, or anything like 'I'm the tomb raider'.
All that was needed a freshened up take on LAU and some tweaks to Lara, not some completely different woman, who has the same name.


And no, she is not the same. Sharing personality traits does not make two person the same. Period.

Last edited by Zsott; 25-11-20 at 05:47.
Zsott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-20, 10:28   #30274
LNSNHGTDS
Relic Hunter
 
LNSNHGTDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 9,968
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorXD View Post
That's what I'm saying though, the fascination for archaeology should be priority, not a serendipity for whatever ****ty situation she is in, which is one of my main problems with the reboot story arc.

I also think that, Rise out of all 3 games, fails in the storytelling department. Because it thinks, and it wants to tell one story, which is about Lara and how much she's grown, but it ends up telling another one, which is "random white girl saves long lost village while constantly reminding herself of her daddy issues". Lara gets sidelined and she is hardly the protagonist of her own story, and Richard, who should have been nothing but a starting point for her research, becomes a postmortem star. It is his ex who is the villain seeking the artefact he found, and how his suicide damaged Lara etc, and all the while the game is always reminding us how important Richard is and how much we should care about him, when in fact, we don't. Be it because Lara is mentioning him or the villains are. And all of these faults are aggravated by the fact that any distinguishing personality Lara had by the end of TR2013, is mostly gone in the sequel.

And by doing that, Shadow's story and subsequent closing of Lara's development arc, got affected in a negative way, cheapening the story, her character, her arc, and any "wow" factor the game could have proposed to us.
I think it's a matter of perception. Throughout all three games Richard is painted as inferior to Lara. It's not about "making it all about him" it's about showing how even though Lara based her expeditions on his research and his work her field experience and skills far surpassed those of her father's and where he failed she succeeded and on the plus side didn't get herself killed by Trinity. I don't think it needed or had to be there but I don't really mind Richard and Amelia either. In Amelia's case I actually think they did her storyline better this time too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsott View Post
Nice story, tell me more... but wait: we are stuck with her problems since 2006. ...or 2003 if we count the first movie too.


Hmm... she literally said this (minus the trinity bit) at the end of RoTR. Yet nothing happened. So there goes the 'deep' storytelling.
SoTR's and in general the latest trilogy's storytelling just as deep as a frozen bag of french fries. But each to their own.



I wonder what do you know about the previous iteration(s) of Lara, because right now it seems you -just like Crystal D- have a misconception of Tomb Raider.
Tomb Raider was not a trait, or a person to become to.
It was a nickname, put on Lara by journalists (not real life ones, but in her universe) because of the artefacts and places she found.
Her bio even stated, that she was despised by archeologists, because of her carelessnes, not to mention how she gunned down of believed to be exinct or endangered species.
Everything she did, or found was because she wanted to, for her own amusement. She had no ulterior motive, or big meanings for her actions. However when she screwed up, she tried to fix it. Reboot Lara doesn't work like that at all. Her motives are totally different.
There was no need of an origin story, or anything like 'I'm the tomb raider'.
All that was needed a freshened up take on LAU and some tweaks to Lara, not some completely different woman, who has the same name.


And no, she is not the same. Sharing personality traits does not make two person the same. Period.
There hasn't been a game after Shadow yet so how are we supposed to know how Survivor Lara, who is as much Lara Croft as Classic Lara is whether people like it or not, acts like without the family drama and "responsibilities" holding her down?

Survivor Lara went adventuring because she had to so far but literally the whole point was for players to see that even if Lara was forced into those situations she still enjoyed finding things and examining them. I understand it could have been a lot more fleshed out but I guess the whole point of the origins story is that we're gonna be seeing more of that from now on.
__________________
"I'm not who you think I am" - Lara Croft
LNSNHGTDS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-20, 17:55   #30275
Rai
Moderator
 
Rai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In a bubble outside the universe
Posts: 33,909
Default

Personally, i think it's natural that Lara's parents got brought into the story of her origins as she embarks on a lifestyle of adventuring. But it's not all about them, far from it (imo).

If we're looking for motivations and proof that Lara wasn't all about doing this out of some sort of duty, let's not forget the reason she was on the trip to Yamatai in the first place. It wasn't out of some duty to her dad, it was because she wanted to find adventure, she was fascinated by the myth surrounding Yamatai and Himiko and wanted to be involved in its discovery. Throughout the game she uses the knowledge she already has, and new knowledge as she finds more clues, in figuring out the truth behind the myth.

Her father was mentioned, what, 2-3 times?

Rise, yes, I think they put her father into the limelight a bit much, putting him on a pedestal. But it should be noted that Richard didn't find the artefact, he was searching for it, but he didn't find the connection between Syria and Kitezh and the Deathless Prophet. Lara made the connection, because Lara found the clue. Lara uses her own knowledge and her own abilities to find the clues and put the pieces together and it was Lara that made the discoveries because she was willing to go the extra mile to put herself on the line. She had the skills to go head to head with Trinity. Sure it was Richard's ex who was involved in Trinity and it was Trinity who took an interest in Richard initially, but it was Lara that they felt was worth watching. They had Richard killed . It was Lara they kept alive because her skills and knowledge could lead them to the artefact and it was Lara who made the decision to destroy the artefact rather than keep it. You'll note it was Ana begging Lara for her to keep the artefact, even though she held it in her hands, showing Ana's weakness, while Lara has the strength to 'sacrifice' her own reputation and needs. Rise is about how Lara excels and succeeds in the end. Yes, she's deeply effected by her father's death, who wouldn't be? If anything, I think it's his suicide that stunts her progress as an adventurous child into the more withdrawn, cautious young woman, who focuses on the research and historical side of things over the sheer wonder that myths can bring.

In Shadow we're shown how Lara has had this adventurous side from a young age. We were told about her first find at aged 5, and her adventurous side is only hinted at in the flashbacks (climbing the outside of the building instead of using the stairs), but we finally get to see it. She's curious an inquisitive, knowledgeable and thoughtful. Lara's motivation at the beginning was to put a stop to Trinity once and for all, to destroy the organisation completely. Because she's seen first hand how dangerous they are and worse how much more dangerous they could be, She's been effected by them personally. And yet, this adventure reminds her of the joy and wonder she used to feel as a child. She'd not completely lost it, but I think it had lain dormant, ignited with the trip to Yamatai, but she was side-lined somewhat by her father's research. In Shadow though she's introduced to the very artefacts that could tempt her to give her heart's desire, for the childhood she could have had. In Rise she was able to sacrifice her father's obsessions, but in Shadow she has her own. She is able to let it go, to keep the past in the past. She can't let her own past, her guilt towards her father, her lost friends, her grief hold her back anymore. She accepts where she's happiest, finally to be able to flourish and embrace her chosen path.

I think Lenny's right. While we can see glimpses of Lara's own passions in archaeology and history, and gradually through Shadow, her thrill for adventure, we just can't see it properly through the origin story lens. Let's see Lara no longer encumbered with the past, in an adventure just for the thrill of it first before comparing her unfavourably besides C-Lara.
__________________
"Who we are is not what we wear, or what sparkles. It's our spirit that defines us."
Rai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-20, 21:45   #30276
LateRaider
Professor
 
LateRaider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ship Pierrson
Posts: 2,827
Default

rai always has the best takes and that's that
__________________
"Come, let's get off this roof, and... I will buy you a milkshake."
LateRaider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-20, 21:49   #30277
LNSNHGTDS
Relic Hunter
 
LNSNHGTDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 9,968
Default

Indeed. And she always presents then so eloquently and in-offensively.

I mean this in the most non-ass-licking way but Rai is an inspiration to always try and do better as a TRF member xD
__________________
"I'm not who you think I am" - Lara Croft
LNSNHGTDS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-20, 09:48   #30278
Raider8
Explorer
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Asia
Posts: 795
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LateRaider View Post
rai always has the best takes and that's that
Indeed.
Raider8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.