08-11-15, 20:17 | #1821 |
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,208
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Umm, that sounds like the argument was actually more serious then we thought and things really have stopped?
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08-11-15, 20:56 | #1822 |
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 536
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Looks like the only successful programming & development so far has been achieved as old fashioned one man show.
In short: Democracy doesn't work! Neither here, nor there. |
08-11-15, 21:17 | #1823 |
Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,827
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Ooooh That sounds pretty bad... can anyone tell me exactly what happened? It seemed to be going so well with a lot of people working on this and progress was much faster. If only one person is working at this it will take forever... there are still SO many things that need to implemented :/
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09-11-15, 09:46 | #1824 |
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 138
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I don't think that something unusual happened in particular. It seems that OpenTomb is just of low priority for the developers right now. The slow progress is nothing new considering that there never were too many people working on it. TeslaRus found a new job which takes almost all of his time. Also, he was not very fond of the changes in the main branch and he preferred to stay away from it for a while. Lwmte seems to be occupied by his real life too. T4Larson is still working on collision processing in his spare time but updates are rare. Stohrendorf is still working on his refactoring branch. Others seem to have their differences with the decisions made in the past. I'm certainly intending to test it and do small fixes when there is something ready to test.
Overall, there is not enough manpower behind the project. All low hanging fruit is already ripped off and the remaining work needs much more planning and consolidated effort. Anyway, that's how I see it. Put it differently, there is a lack of leadership and everyone is working on his preferred pet features. Last edited by vvsgh; 09-11-15 at 09:56. |
09-11-15, 11:55 | #1825 |
Golden
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 16,751
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Vvsgh: That is a… surprising point of view, considering that most developers have quit the project, all communication between developers has ended, the Github site has seen no meaningful activity for months, and the few people who are still developing aren't sharing code or talking to each other. To each their own interpretation, I guess, but I know you were around for all of that, so I am not sure where your positive attitude is coming from.
For everyone else: I don't think I'm qualified to speak about things neutrally, since I'm still too angry, and honestly speaking, too much of it is my fault. I certainly didn't help prevent it. But on a basic level, the problem is that we weren't able to manage a project of this size properly, and when big changes came in, we didn't handle it well, didnt understand or discuss it properly, and then the whole thing basically came to a halt. It is not a case of any big drama or argument or something (though we did have a bit of that), it's mostly just big changes handled really badly by well meaning and competent people all around. Sorry about that. If you want details, it's all public in this thread and the issues section of the Github site. If the project is making a comeback now, that's awesome! I wish everybody the best of luck. |
09-11-15, 11:57 | #1826 |
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 12,070
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Is it possible to just, I don't know, halt the project for a while, check what's done and what's not, and then just plan what should be done and who should do what and try again? I mean, so you could combine branches into one and start from it again?
Last edited by Caesum; 09-11-15 at 11:58. |
09-11-15, 12:37 | #1827 | |||||
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 138
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That's true, unfortunately. Things are not that bad. At least I value the work that happened on the collision front. TeslaRus is doing very interesting things too, but his branch would require much effort to integrate it back to the main branch. Quote:
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I hope that if things start to change for better you will return. Your previous work on the rendering side was invaluable. I don't believe that somebody could replace you there |
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09-11-15, 14:21 | #1828 |
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,564
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^
I completely agree with everything said above. Group projects are always tough but you guys have accomplished so much that it would be a shame to let it go to waste. All obstacles are meant to be overcome, we just need to keep a positive attitude and try to find the best way to overcome them. I wish you guys the best of luck and I hope you'll all come to an understanding and will be able to work together again. Anyone else thinks that Core Design really ought to release that source code someday ? |
09-11-15, 14:42 | #1829 | ||
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,773
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Quote:
Now, you have some very valid points, especially the parts where you mention major changes not being discussed correctly. Nevertheless, each and every one of us had the right to voice an opinion, revoke such changes and suggest an improvement. Quote:
========= There has been A LOT of confusion caused. I thought we were migrating to Github and developing everything in one place. It seems that TeslaRus has decided to work with an older version of the codebase. Substantial changes have been made and as @vvsgh suggested it may be complex to integrate those changes in right now. I am very sorry that the team has come to this. Communication is KEY I have always suggested maybe something like Skype could be used to collaborate better so we know exactly what each and every one of us is doing or is going to do. Leadership is a problem here, we never really had a leader or someone who would take on the role fully. To be honest, the project needs a good cleanup. All the current features need to be reviewed and all the current bugs need to be fixed. There are too many half baked features.... Regards. |
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09-11-15, 16:40 | #1830 |
Golden
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 16,751
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Wait, did I insult anyone by saying the team was competent? That was not my intention, and frankly, I don't get why this would be insulting. What I meant was that the mess was NOT caused by anyone being an idiot or by anyone being an asshole. Everyone involved was doing good work individually. Yeah, different levels of experience, but there was nobody who was bad. The problem was that the cooperation didn't really work. And yes, that is my fault too.
I fully agree that need more communication is key, but I don't think Skype's the answer. Many people here (e.g.: Me) don't speak english as their first language, and are better at having it written than at actually speaking. Time zones are also an issue. The best approach would probably be along the lines of other Open Source projects: A mailing list (or forum, or similar) for the discussion; all code comes in via merge requests, that are discussed and not immediately applied; instead people talk talk about them, maybe reject them or demand that they get split into smaller pieces and so on. It's more work all around, but it seems to work for everyone else. vvsgh: I'm not as irreplaceable as you think; my work was mostly standard stuff that I talked about too much. For me, the main issue why I left was one of infrastructure. I was the only one who developed on and cared about Mac OS X, and so I have to keep the build environment working, ensured that all the libraries are there, the build process worked and so on. That's not something I'm really good at; my solution (prior to the refactoring) was mostly hacked together. I know Cmake is supposed to make it all better in theory, but in practice I never got it working right. This problem will still be there even after everything else has been solved, and after all the time and curse words I spent getting the hacked solution working, I'm really not interested in going there again. Yeah, I know that's selfish. Sorry. |
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