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Old 21-06-21, 14:41   #8131
Tonyrobinson
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If they done it right it'd be awesome. The unification has piqued my interest but I haven't been excited for a Tomb Raider game in a while so I hope there is something that makes me excited for this one.

I think that Shadow was a step in the right direction in terms of platforming and puzzles and I was pleasently surprised because I kept my expectations low.

I think because they're now sort of putting things in plan to make it more established as an overall franchise it could be exciting if done right.
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Old 21-06-21, 15:47   #8132
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Nevermind, like I said, I don't want to argue.
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Old 21-06-21, 18:38   #8133
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No. Hub based TR already sucked, so open world TR will probably just suck even more. TR needs linear level progression. Individual levels should be sprawling and complex, but appear in order.
Agreed.

They should take inspiration from the new Hitman games. Self-contained levels that're both linear and open.
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Old 21-06-21, 19:32   #8134
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Personally, I think that Tomb Raider should go even more in-depth with the hub based system it has now (and with TLR and AOD, if we're being honest), and finally go the 3D Metroidvania route that they were pseudo doing with TR2013, but abandoned with RotTR and SotTR in favor of more pseudo open-world hubs.

A Tomb Raider game with properly interconnected hubs, which require you to keep exploring to find the path forward? Perhaps by solving puzzles that open new paths? Count me in.

Hell, Metroid Dread seems to be doing this alongside the series traditional upgrade-based progression. If it goes well, Tomb Raider can explore that and translated it into 3D design...
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Old 21-06-21, 20:38   #8135
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Hubs are not bad. The Rise and Shadow ones are bad. I don’t want to go on dumb fetch quests or engage in a collect a thon. I think the best hub in the reboot was the flooded archives. A mixture of combat, puzzles and traversal all in a huge contained room. I want them to make these linear places feel vast. That to me is great level design. I’m so over just open places with no substance or reason to explore, just filled to the brim with unnecessary junk like Paititi.
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Old 21-06-21, 20:52   #8136
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Hubs have nothing to do with fetch quests. That's a game design choice and could be done in a linear game as well as an open world one. The hubs in my opinion are just pointless for TR. They are there to give a false sense of exploration. Running all over Paititi or the Geothermal valley to stumble on two or three hidden tombs is not what I'd call exploration. I'd rather have more linear environments that have more varied level design and that are well packed with things to do on the main path as well as some nice side areas. Core's games were never open, some laterlevels aside, and at times could be quite linear but they had side rooms and little books and crannies you could explore. I want that type of design back rather than random areas of nothing.


You could reduce every hub by about 50% and still have the exact same experience.
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Old 21-06-21, 21:08   #8137
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I don't think it's fair to put Rise hubs in the same pot as Shadow. You still have platforming and fights in them. I enjoyed them as much as those from 2013. I agree they can be superficially bigger but it didn't affect my appreciation of them.

As for level design, I would like them to get inspired by the last Resident Evil games (especially REmake 2)
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Old 21-06-21, 21:10   #8138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Portugalraider View Post
Personally, I think that Tomb Raider should go even more in-depth with the hub based system it has now (and with TLR and AOD, if we're being honest), and finally go the 3D Metroidvania route that they were pseudo doing with TR2013, but abandoned with RotTR and SotTR in favor of more pseudo open-world hubs.

A Tomb Raider game with properly interconnected hubs, which require you to keep exploring to find the path forward? Perhaps by solving puzzles that open new paths? Count me in.

Hell, Metroid Dread seems to be doing this alongside the series traditional upgrade-based progression. If it goes well, Tomb Raider can explore that and translated it into 3D design...
I love Metroidvanias and IMO there should be far more 3D Metroidvanias, but I don't think that that's the route that TR should go. At least not in the classic Metroidvania sense where you constantly revisit the earliest locations of a game. The way TLR and AoD did it was good, though: Several Metroidvania-like Hubs, but once you're done in one of them, that section is over and you won't ever revisit it. But then again that's pretty much how TR levels always were, only that in the earlier games Core was pretty limited with the size of the levels that they could do and even in TLR and AoD they cheated by having several levels that were connected instead of larger maps.

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I think the best hub in the reboot was the flooded archives.
Hey, that's also my favourite hub! I think that Flooded Archives works so well is because it's rather small and the whole area is used for the puzzle of that area.

My biggest problem with a lot of the hubs in the reboot games is that they're far too big and pretty boring to traverse. Most of the time you can just run forwards to get from point A to point B and there's rarely any platforming involved.
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Old 21-06-21, 21:11   #8139
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Originally Posted by jajay119 View Post
Hubs have nothing to do with fetch quests. That's a game design choice and could be done in a linear game as well as an open world one. The hubs in my opinion are just pointless for TR. They are there to give a false sense of exploration. Running all over Paititi or the Geothermal valley to stumble on two or three hidden tombs is not what I'd call exploration. I'd rather have more linear environments that have more varied level design and that are well packed with things to do on the main path as well as some nice side areas. Core's games were never open, some laterlevels aside, and at times could be quite linear but they had side rooms and little books and crannies you could explore. I want that type of design back rather than random areas of nothing.


You could reduce every hub by about 50% and still have the exact same experience.
Yea. That’s why I said the ones in Rise and Shadow were poor examples. A hub doesn’t have to mean fetch quest. Which is why the flooded archives gave some of the best gameplay bcuz of the linear paths in just one room.
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Old 21-06-21, 21:17   #8140
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I agree I could live without any NPC quests and hunting. I don't think it belongs to Tomb Raider and they were not very interesting to begin with.
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