www.tombraiderforums.com  

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Tomb Raider Series > Future of Tomb Raider

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 14-06-19, 14:37   #41
Tombraider95
Relic Hunter
 
Tombraider95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
No it could not. TR was put in CDs hands for a reason -
So you know for a fact, that if CD had stopped making TR games after Underworld... that now in 2019 TR would still be at rest? I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
it stopped working with its old formula, and stopped being profitable.
It stopped working with CD's "vision" of the old formula.*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
They did something more drastic then, and it did work.
Turning the reboot into a new IP would only result in the TR brand being shelved, nothing else.
Yes, drastic by removing the majority of TR from the game. Hence my original point that it could have been a new IP.
__________________
"I hate tombs" - Rlara 2013. An established tomb addict.
Tombraider95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-19, 14:43   #42
Legends
Tomb Raider
 
Legends's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 18,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombraider95 View Post
It stopped working with CD's "vision" of the old formula.*
Totally. If they had the same budget as the reboot, things might have been different. The problem wasn't that it stopped working, it was that they never really tried to get it to work. Not really. They wanted to get rid of the "old" Lara basically as soon as they got the franchise and do their own thing with it.
Legends is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-19, 14:52   #43
Zsott
Archaeologist
 
Zsott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: France
Posts: 2,263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
They made a separate Lara Croft, so they could create her within their own vision...
Keyword. They, shouldn't have done this. That is one of the biggest reasons why is there so much drama around here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
... and left classic Lara Croft untouched in her original form. It's not like they picked on Classic Lara and changed her all around with misinterpretations of her
Untrue.
Tomb Raider Legend did not featured the Lara we knew from the beginning. They made her 'up to date'. When Underworld happened, TR 2013 was already in development, which made clear, they had no idea, how to go on in the future.
On the other hand, they know very well, that they can't delete the older iterations from existence; hence why Temple of Osiris, the comic with Carter, and relic run happened. (And made her a spinoff series, which has been dead since LC GO)
Zsott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-19, 15:03   #44
Lyle Croft
Relic Hunter
 
Lyle Croft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,437
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
God no. I don't want that over the top acrobatics at all. A little more acrobacy, to some degree? Sure, but please not something over the top.

Oh, and that vid reminded me once again how much I need Lara to have proper hand-to-hand combat next game, after her training it in the comics, and displaying it in that "Don't try me" scene
I need combat, and i need that over the top.
If it ain't campy and over the top, it's homophobic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends View Post
I've also seen the leaked gameplay and Black Widow basically looks like the LAU move-set with an upgrade. It's like they took the Legend engine and re-worked it to fit the Avengers, what the hell Crystal? I hope Square Enix gives Tomb Raider to competent people next time. Absolutely sick of Crystal after seeing this.
I was thinking that too. Idk though, the game seems clunky at times...especially animations being all snappy? It seems to suffer from random weird transitions like the TRSurvivor series.
__________________
Sitting over here starin in your face
Lyle Croft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-19, 15:04   #45
Vaskito
Relic Hunter
 
Vaskito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,937
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombraider95 View Post
So you know for a fact, that if CD had stopped making TR games after Underworld... that now in 2019 TR would still be at rest? I don't think so.
TR was put on their hands. They didn't steal it. So tell me, were you expecting what, exactly? For them to continue with the old formula that showed fatigue and decline in sales by the 4th game? They had two options: do the same old, or do something new. They did something new, keeping it mostly familiar, but more intuitive and fun to play - thefore broader to a bigger audience. It only had moderate success. They got a second chance of trying it again, but that time around, by redoing it from the ground. You don't have to accept and like what they did, but you should at least be open to changes. Lots of people in here demand freshness and changes, acusing them of playing too safe, when they've reinvented the franchise and started over on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombraider95 View Post
It stopped working with CD's "vision" of the old formula.*
No, it stopped working in Core's formula. In Crystal's formula, save for Anni, both Legend and Underworld performed similarily. But, 1) it was only moderate success, and 2) they themselves said they felt uninspired making LAU, which 3) was also one of the reasons that made them start over, and that start over was well received both financially, and critically, even, to many critics, setting an example of a reboot well made

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombraider95 View Post
Yes, drastic by removing the majority of TR from the game. Hence my original point that it could have been a new IP.
And then naturally adding back elements in interesting and modernized ways.

We'll only go around and around in a circular argument, because neither of us is right or wrong in here. Both of us are long time fans of TR. You didn't like the newest outcome. I did. Both of our opinions have the same value. I was simply pointing out that I think it would not make any difference to you for them to creating a new IP instead of rebooting the franchise. Because the franchise needed to be shaken up to be kept alive, and it was their job to do so. They didn't steal it from anyone, and they've managed to create something of their own within it, leaving the original intact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsott View Post
Untrue
Tomb Raider Legend did not featured the Lara we knew from the beginning. They made her 'up to date'.
Nope, it did not. They featured na actually likeable Lara in Legend, with an interesting and fun personality, after the monotoned one that had featured so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle Croft View Post
I need combat, and i need that over the top.
If it ain't campy and over the top, it's homophobic.
I'm over campyness after having the chance to play something more serious. I want combat too, and I want awesome hand to hand one. I wanna punch guys in the face with Lara, and it's one of my biggest wishes for the future
__________________
We stand undefined. Can't be drawn with a straight line.

Last edited by Vaskito; 14-06-19 at 15:10.
Vaskito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-19, 15:08   #46
Samz
Relic Hunter
 
Samz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Helheim
Posts: 5,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post


And then naturally adding back elements in interesting and modernized ways.




I'm over campyness after having the chance to play something more serious. I want combat to, and I want awesome hand to hand one. I wanna punch guys in the faces with Lara, and it's one of my biggest wishes for the future


Yeah remember how great swimming was in Rise? and traps? and don't forget the small handful of non-human enemies.

Its so great how those mechanics are completely inferior to the original game on the Playstation 1 as well as LAU.


Also there's already a game where Lara can punch people, its called AOD.
__________________
"What does it mean to be a Tomb Raider?,It means to collect artifacts for sport"

Last edited by Samz; 14-06-19 at 15:14.
Samz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-19, 15:11   #47
Legends
Tomb Raider
 
Legends's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 18,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle Croft View Post
I was thinking that too. Idk though, the game seems clunky at times...especially animations being all snappy? It seems to suffer from random weird transitions like the TRSurvivor series.
I noticed that too actually. What happened to their animations for them to be so clunky? It's the one thing we can count on now. Piss poor animations. They used to be good in Legend and Anniversary. Then after that it's like they didn't give af about them. It's been over a decade now with awful animations. Anyway, Avengers is obviously not done, so it'll probably be improved for the final release, after all, we've just seen leaked gameplay. It doesn't give me great confidence in them though... If the past is anything to go by.
Legends is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-19, 15:14   #48
Vaskito
Relic Hunter
 
Vaskito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,937
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samz View Post
Yeah remember how great swimming was in Rise? and traps? and don't forget the small handful of non-human enemies.
I remember how great swimming is in SOTTR - though, it could be expanded upon. I'd love an underwater level

Wolves, bears, leopards. What about them?

I agree that traps can be improved upon. But not overdone like in the past would be ideal


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samz View Post
Also there's already a game where Lara can punch people, its called AOD.
When I say punch, I mean elaborated hand to hand combat, which reboot Lara is trained for. Expanded combat, like punches, defense, counter-attacks and so on
__________________
We stand undefined. Can't be drawn with a straight line.

Last edited by Vaskito; 14-06-19 at 15:16.
Vaskito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-19, 15:18   #49
Amunet
Archaeologist
 
Amunet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaskito View Post
You could also enjoy her a lot more if you accepted that she's a new different version of Lara Croft, like there were in the past, and like there will be in the future.

"Certain Expectations" are down to each individual. I didn't have those expectations when I was told it would be a complete reboot. As a long fan of the Tomb Raider, I enjoyed and aproved the changes and new take, Which one of us is right in this instance?
It's not a question of being right or wrong, Vaskito. We're all here just sharing our personal experiences. I'm happy for you that you are able to enjoy the reboot character, but I'm not. I've tried, but she's simply too different from Classic Lara for me to enjoy her as any version of that character. If she was someone else, I would judge her differently, but she's still named Lara Croft.

And it's not like I'm not opposed to different versions of Lara. I love Top Cow Lara even though she has some differences to the games. And I thought Angie's movies were a decent adaptation of the character, even despite the father plot in the first movie. Overall, I thought they captured the essence of the character, which is something I personally feel CD hasn't been able to do.

And you're right, each individual will have different expectations, that's why we come here to share our points of view. And in my very own personal opinion, the reboot character simply sharing the same name as Lara Croft isn't enough to make her a version of that character. Sure, they have a few more things in common, but you yourself recognize that the two are very different characters, and for me, they are too different.

And I'm not saying I wish the Reboot character never to have existed, I'm just saying I wish she was called something other than Lara Croft.
__________________
"If it's unique or exciting, I go after it." — Lara Croft
Amunet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-19, 15:29   #50
NoahCrofRaider
Relic Hunter
 
NoahCrofRaider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amunet View Post
It's not a question of being right or wrong, Vaskito. We're all here just sharing our personal experiences. I'm happy for you that you are able to enjoy the reboot character, but I'm not. I've tried, but she's simply too different from Classic Lara for me to enjoy her as any version of that character. If she was someone else, I would judge her differently, but she's still named Lara Croft.

And it's not like I'm not opposed to different versions of Lara. I love Top Cow Lara even though she has some differences to the games. And I thought Angie's movies were a decent adaptation of the character, even despite the father plot in the first movie. Overall, I thought they captured the essence of the character, which is something I personally feel CD hasn't been able to do.

And you're right, each individual will have different expectations, that's why we come here to share our points of view. And in my very own personal opinion, the reboot character simply sharing the same name as Lara Croft isn't enough to make her a version of that character. Sure, they have a few more things in common, but you yourself recognize that the two are very different characters, and for me, they are too different.

And I'm not saying I wish the Reboot character never to have existed, I'm just saying I wish she was called something other than Lara Croft.
I fully agree with all of this. I love reboot Lara, and I do feel like she works decently as a version of Lara Croft, but I think she could be so much more and in so many different ways if it was a completely new character.

Reboot Lara has always been held back by trying to live up to the legacy classic Lara made for herself. Whether it be dual pistols, level of confidence and fierceness, a more sassy and witty attitude, spunk, a lot of these things were gone without almost any trace in the reboot games. It is supposed to be a reboot, hence why not everything will be the same, but there are core elements that should have been there from the beginning or should have been introduced sometime throughout the trilogy if you’re weaving a new spin on an iconic character like Lara Croft. As a result, it’s no secret that many people will feel alienated, sometimes to the point of being unable to identify with the character, and won’t be able to enjoy this new take on the character because they feel like aren’t or won’t be heard.

I know people will argue (even myself in some areas) that reboot Lara retains some of these qualities to a degree or in a different way, which can be fine, but me and many others feel like they took the idea of a reboot a little too far and essentially “threw the baby out of the bath water”. I have/had no problem with reboot Lara not immediately having all the classic stuff, but as I said before, some things should have already been there in the first game or should have been brought in sometime throughout the trilogy.

I am personally very happy with how Lara is at the end of Shadow, because I feel like there is a great chance we will get a lot of classic stuff back and there is a glimmer of it already, but the paragraphs above are my issues with how reboot Lara has been handled and how I would have done things differently.
__________________
“These things, they don’t break us. They make us who we are.”

Last edited by NoahCrofRaider; 14-06-19 at 15:33.
NoahCrofRaider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 16:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.