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Old 25-06-18, 13:24   #11
wmcintosh
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Spaced off the no-scratch part. I got ahead of myself and should've left out second part.
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Old 27-06-18, 18:04   #12
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Quote:
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Had a quick go on this and it looks like it must be a VERY precise landing area.

I've matched LC's start position for the jump as closely as possible from the YT video and literally the smallest rotation left and she lands on solid ground (with damage) and a similarly small rotation right and she goes straight into the water.

One thing I did notice is that in the video halfway through the jump her arms stretch up indicating that X (Grab) is being held at that point. I still couldn't replicate the same result but what I did find is that doing that I could do the conventional landing, with damage, far more consistently.
I've come to the same conclusion. I think the person might be pressing end/roll at the exact moment of Lara making contact with the division between ground and water, like shown at the end of the video. I've tried many, many times now and she ends up either on land or in the water but not in between.. at least for me
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Last edited by Maverin; 28-06-18 at 08:15.
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Old 28-06-18, 17:38   #13
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it's not that precise lol
i think i have a save of it , if you still need it
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Old 29-06-18, 00:57   #14
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Oh, you've found my little video
Yes it's a tricky one. In my mind this non-secret but hard to get uzi in the first level of the Gold episodes has become just as much a TR trademark as the unreachable large medis in the main episodes. In the case of Unfinished Business they pretty much shoot themselves in the foot by also putting there the easiest fence-bug ever, but it worked well in Golden Mask. So I guess it made sense to up the ante, in Golden Mask there is the drop with big health loss, in Lost Artefact you have to jump for it. And yes, by pressing grab or roll Lara jumps a bit farther in this situation, with grab a bit farther though.
I played the demo before the game itself, and in the demo there is a rock formation from where you can jump over to the uzi area. But that was removed from the final game, still it made sense to look for a solution in the same vein, hence the bridge jump. The glitchy no-scratch version is really just about setting your starting position precisely. You don't have to press anything at the moment of landing, you get into this flicker motion state just by landing at the right spot. (edit: on second thought, I was already pressing grab, so even if I had let go by the moment of landing maybe that made a difference) Then I kept hitting action and then roll until Lara got free. (edit2: possibly holding forward ) The turn was intentional too. There is an audio clue in the video as Lara is bobbing up and down at some point the splashing sound stops, indicating she's progressing forwards.
There is another no-scratch method that's been mentioned, also involves a glitch. This is from under water, you have to hit the corner of the rock in about 45 degrees angle while swimming. Basically it's a special type of corner bug, you only have to worry about the angle and the current takes care of the rest, it pushes Lara into the block. If you're having trouble with the glitchy bridge jump, try this other way, it's easier.

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Old 29-06-18, 11:43   #15
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Thanks very much for that information about both techniques and the original video too. Should be helpful for others getting it to work.
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Old 30-06-18, 09:41   #16
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Thank you very much indeed Acki. I'll try it again sometime soon. I've been following your no-scratch posts for quite a while now actually, you are a real pro
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Old 04-07-18, 16:59   #17
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Thanks for your kind words. And it's reassuring to know that people are still very much interested in these kind of challenges. It is indeed satisfying experience when you overcome the supposedly unavoidable injuries. Be it with bug usage or without. The old Challenge threads are treasure troves of information, but note that many great discoveries has been made since, so some of the things that proved impossible for us back then, now have solutions. Perhaps it would be useful to make some sort of definitive list, kinda like the unreachable pickups/enemies in the other thread.
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Old 04-07-18, 21:54   #18
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Thanks for your kind words. And it's reassuring to know that people are still very much interested in these kind of challenges. It is indeed satisfying experience when you overcome the supposedly unavoidable injuries. Be it with bug usage or without. The old Challenge threads are treasure troves of information, but note that many great discoveries has been made since, so some of the things that proved impossible for us back then, now have solutions. Perhaps it would be useful to make some sort of definitive list, kinda like the unreachable pickups/enemies in the other thread.
Lara quote "oh yes, very much so in fact" and I should be the one thanking you!

Many people think glitching and hacking is the same and gives the player an unfair advantage. While true in some extent, they often forget that some of these glitches can be much harder and frustrating and provide much more challenge than playing the game without them. Which I think is too bad. I read those old threads a lot, searching for tips and tricks! Downside of course is that they are outdated and many of the pictures there are expired. I miss the days when those challenges were still being hosted (what happened to EscondeR anyway?). A list like that would most definitely be useful! But it appears that the classics have lost a lot of popularity and their threads are pretty much dead, unlike 5 years ago
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Old 05-07-18, 03:59   #19
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akci, thank you for the information! It is very interesting to me seeing how this bug works. I don't think I've seen anything quite like it before personally (except corner bug-- glitch across the wall surface to land on a higher point). I'm sure our beloved bug scientist would be proud.
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Old 07-07-18, 00:39   #20
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Wow, that's the highest praise you can possibly say, I'm touched.
And I had the pleasure to play with him, and others, during the old series of challenges so I know that he knew about it. In fact after the game first came out this was the only known method for a while to get the uzis. It is unique as it only works in this level due to specific circumstances, so I've filed it in my head in the ninth 'special' category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverin View Post
Many people think glitching and hacking is the same and gives the player an unfair advantage. While true in some extent, they often forget that some of these glitches can be much harder and frustrating and provide much more challenge than playing the game without them
This topic comes up from time to time, but worth repeating what you just said.
One of the beauty of the glitches in this game is that they are not easy. They require skill and knowledge to make them work. I think of this issue like a toolbox, with legal gameplay I have fewer tools, that makes it more prestigious perhaps, but not easier. Because when facing with a problem if I have to think with the larger toolbox with glitches, more possibilities, more variations, it can be harder to even think of a solution that takes into consideration all possible options, let alone actually do it.
The obvious criticism is that a playthrough with bugs gives you better statistics in the end. Well, maybe that's the motivation for some, but for me it's not about having a few more pickups, but the consistency of the method, and what can be achieved with that method. So legal or glitched gameplay are equally interesting to me.
During the old challenges, after some initial pathfinding, IIRC it was during TR2 that bugs became verboten. But all secrets/pickups also had priority over no-scratch. So out of bugs and misses, allowed neither.
I would be very much interested in a challenge wherein no-scratch is the main priority, all other considerations secondary, crew expendable. So it allows both. It's on my laundry list, I just never got around to do it. This way due to the misses the result surely would be fewer pickups and kills, so no one can say it's a vain attempt for better stats, it's all about keeping the health loss minimum. Perhaps the grand total health loss in all the games wouldn't even reach 100%, or at least not by much.
Pacifist mode (low kills) would be also interesting.
Many people reported about their private challenges, so there is interest. Maybe it would worth a shot trying to organize another, possibly by a mod. Although I have no idea how the newer games would fit into that.
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