KV5 different versions - Page 7

The Great Chi · 01-03-10, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by rr_carroll

....Incidentally, I think her "altitude" must be at the bottom of her feet - if you manage to embed into a crawlspace, Lara ends up standing INTO the masonry overhead (you can Duck, and then crawl).

Correct. When you use fexinspect to move items the base of the item is used for the altitude in model space (laras feet in this case).

I was going to do the same 'savepoint' experiment for the locked gates in city of the dead, by positoning lara exactly where the gate change is, but I can tell you now she would not end up embeded in the gate like the movie 'philidelphia experiment'

at least I hope not

Instead the game engine as you say, will push her to one side.

rr_carroll · 01-03-10, 23:57

Not up?

The Great Chi · 02-03-10, 00:04

If the floor level is the same in both versions at that savepoint, which it is at that gate, then she will stay at the same level.

Did you think she would end up straddling the top of the gate

You could try it if you want, as you have both versions of that level and could swap saves, and see what happens

rr_carroll · 02-03-10, 00:43

I'm guilty, of course.

Thank you again for both versions.

I imagined that the "new" area behind the gate has a flat or sloping top. And that you meant to save Lara completely inside the square. So it's my turn to make a test.

rr_carroll · 02-03-10, 03:11

Well, that was interesting!

I'm using the Times Exclusive method to play the various versions. With the original version of bikebit.tr4, I bugged over the wall and saved here:

To the left of the gate, this is where one of the two new columns appears, the one more distant from the gate.

Then I switched to the Soldout version of bikebit.tr4, and loaded:

As you can see, Lara is lifted onto the level-topped column (even though the top is transparent).

Then I thought I'd save where the other column appears. So back in Original, I stepped forward...

...and was immediately sent to the sloping top of the gate! She slides onto the flat-topped column beyond.

This seemed unfamiliar, so I saved at the same position, using my normal game played from the disk:

I copied this savegame to the Times Exclusive folder, but of course it showed as "City Of The Dead" in the Load list, not "The Times Exclusive" like all the others. When I tried to load it the game crashed.

"I can fix this," I thought, so I opened the savegame with Notepad, and the first thing shown is the level name. I pasted "The Times Exclusive" over "City Of The Dead" and saved.

But that isn't enough; now the Load list shows:

It's not really empty; you can't save into it. More knowledgeable folk probably knew this wouldn't work.

One last oddity (so far!): I thought I'd try a save straddling the line. Using the original file, I saved here:

If Lara were to take one more vertical jump, she would bug to the top of the gate and fall to the ground.

Switched to Soldout, loaded. Lara looks partially into the gate, but her center is still in the square outside it.

Note that soldier at the left edge. He turns firmly away as the load finishes.

If you jump vertically twice, Lara slides down the top of the gate to the column, as before. The soldier still ignores her as she shoots him!

By the way, I thought I'd try straddling the edge of the same column from the side. But with the Times game, the two squares next to the closed gate don't bug you up - you can't enter them at all! This is true for both file versions.

The Great Chi · 02-03-10, 09:00

Yes, as you say very interesting

So you nearly had lara stuck and straddling the gate after all

As for the columns, well both versions have flat surfaces at different heights in those squares, so something weird was going to happen

Well Done

rr_carroll · 02-03-10, 09:41

I'm most curious about the odd bugging up when you try go next to the gate, but only in the Times. This suggests the tomb4.exe is somehow different; and sure enough, the one with The Times is about 4K larger.

Do you think it's possible to modify a TR4 save to a Times save? The savegames are exactly the same size. Time for something more sophisticated than Notepad!

jeffareid · 02-03-10, 12:51

Directly listing from my original TR4 cd-rom, using a directory program I wrote. The date and times appear to be GMT +0:00 times, and since I'm GMT -8:00, then alexhub.tr4 shows as 8:16 am as opposed to 4:16 pm if I do a dir.

Code:

19991117 16:16:18 alexhub.tr4
19991118 16:42:56 alexhub2.tr4
19991117 16:23:26 angkor1.tr4
19991117 16:21:28 ang_race.tr4
19991118 16:45:02 bikebit.tr4
19991117 01:11:34 binkw32.dll
19991117 16:27:40 citnew.tr4
19991117 16:29:40 cortyard.tr4
19991117 16:31:50 csplit1.tr4
19991117 16:33:42 csplit2.tr4
19991115 12:48:04 cutseq.pak
19991112 20:32:54 frlogo.pak
19991112 20:32:56 grlogo.pak
19991117 16:37:16 hall.tr4
19991117 16:39:22 highstrt.tr4
19991117 16:40:40 jeepchas.tr4
19991118 16:46:34 jeepchs2.tr4
19991117 16:44:34 joby1a.tr4
19991117 16:46:54 joby1b.tr4
19991117 16:48:52 joby2.tr4
19991117 16:50:42 joby3a.tr4
19991118 16:48:44 joby3b.tr4
19991117 16:55:48 joby4a.tr4
19991117 16:57:26 joby4b.tr4
19991117 16:59:32 joby4c.tr4
19991117 17:00:52 joby5a.tr4
19991117 17:03:14 joby5b.tr4
19991117 17:05:20 joby5c.tr4
19991118 16:51:10 karnak1.tr4
19991118 16:53:06 lake.tr4
19991117 17:12:02 libend.tr4
19991117 17:14:02 library.tr4
19991117 17:15:48 lowstrt.tr4
19991118 16:55:04 nutrench.tr4
19991117 17:19:50 palaces.tr4
19991117 17:21:42 palaces2.tr4
19991117 17:23:18 semer.tr4
19991117 17:24:26 semer2.tr4
19991117 17:26:28 settomb1.tr4
19991117 17:28:08 settomb2.tr4
19991117 16:35:02 title.tr4
19991117 17:30:38 train.tr4
19990926 20:05:38 uklogo.pak
19990929 16:14:22 uslogo.pak

My games came in the pyramid shaped boxes:

Phlip · 10-11-10, 16:52

Here's another PC version difference:

[IMG]http://oi52.************/2la6gjo.jpg[/IMG]

My PS1 original game does have the column, which allows you to get to the top of the building which is unfinished.

rr_carroll · 10-11-10, 17:23

Wow, thanks, Phlip. My PC version also has the column, which allows a corner bug to raise Lara to the level where the white arrow points in your first picture. The new version still seems to have a column there, but it's chopped off.

Don't keep us in suspense, what can you tell us about the source of the version without the column?

How about a few more angles of the missing column? Also please let us know about the file sizes of your .tr4 files (they're in the data folder, on the CD). Especially, the Coastal Ruins file is alexhub2.tr4.

Here are a couple of other views:

02-03-10, 00:04	#63
The Great Chi The Inscrutable One Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Beyond the Floating Islands Posts: 9,513	If the floor level is the same in both versions at that savepoint, which it is at that gate, then she will stay at the same level. Did you think she would end up straddling the top of the gate You could try it if you want, as you have both versions of that level and could swap saves, and see what happens __________________ Humble words by The Great Chi

02-03-10, 03:11	#65
rr_carroll Bug Scientist Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California Posts: 7,209	Well, that was interesting! I'm using the Times Exclusive method to play the various versions. With the original version of bikebit.tr4, I bugged over the wall and saved here: To the left of the gate, this is where one of the two new columns appears, the one more distant from the gate. Then I switched to the Soldout version of bikebit.tr4, and loaded: As you can see, Lara is lifted onto the level-topped column (even though the top is transparent). Then I thought I'd save where the other column appears. So back in Original, I stepped forward... ...and was immediately sent to the sloping top of the gate! She slides onto the flat-topped column beyond. This seemed unfamiliar, so I saved at the same position, using my normal game played from the disk: I copied this savegame to the Times Exclusive folder, but of course it showed as "City Of The Dead" in the Load list, not "The Times Exclusive" like all the others. When I tried to load it the game crashed. "I can fix this," I thought, so I opened the savegame with Notepad, and the first thing shown is the level name. I pasted "The Times Exclusive" over "City Of The Dead" and saved. But that isn't enough; now the Load list shows: It's not really empty; you can't save into it. More knowledgeable folk probably knew this wouldn't work. One last oddity (so far!): I thought I'd try a save straddling the line. Using the original file, I saved here: If Lara were to take one more vertical jump, she would bug to the top of the gate and fall to the ground. Switched to Soldout, loaded. Lara looks partially into the gate, but her center is still in the square outside it. Note that soldier at the left edge. He turns firmly away as the load finishes. If you jump vertically twice, Lara slides down the top of the gate to the column, as before. The soldier still ignores her as she shoots him! By the way, I thought I'd try straddling the edge of the same column from the side. But with the Times game, the two squares next to the closed gate don't bug you up - you can't enter them at all! This is true for both file versions. Last edited by rr_carroll; 02-03-10 at 03:36.

02-03-10, 09:00	#66
The Great Chi The Inscrutable One Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Beyond the Floating Islands Posts: 9,513	Yes, as you say very interesting So you nearly had lara stuck and straddling the gate after all As for the columns, well both versions have flat surfaces at different heights in those squares, so something weird was going to happen Well Done __________________ Humble words by The Great Chi

10-11-10, 17:23	#70
rr_carroll Bug Scientist Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California Posts: 7,209	Wow, thanks, Phlip. My PC version also has the column, which allows a corner bug to raise Lara to the level where the white arrow points in your first picture. The new version still seems to have a column there, but it's chopped off. Don't keep us in suspense, what can you tell us about the source of the version without the column? How about a few more angles of the missing column? Also please let us know about the file sizes of your .tr4 files (they're in the data folder, on the CD). Especially, the Coastal Ruins file is alexhub2.tr4. Here are a couple of other views: Last edited by rr_carroll; 10-11-10 at 18:09.

01-03-10, 23:57	#62
rr_carroll Bug Scientist Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California Posts: 7,209	Not up?

02-03-10, 00:43	#64
rr_carroll Bug Scientist Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California Posts: 7,209	I'm guilty, of course. Thank you again for both versions. I imagined that the "new" area behind the gate has a flat or sloping top. And that you meant to save Lara completely inside the square. So it's my turn to make a test.

02-03-10, 09:41	#67
rr_carroll Bug Scientist Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California Posts: 7,209	I'm most curious about the odd bugging up when you try go next to the gate, but only in the Times. This suggests the tomb4.exe is somehow different; and sure enough, the one with The Times is about 4K larger. Do you think it's possible to modify a TR4 save to a Times save? The savegames are exactly the same size. Time for something more sophisticated than Notepad!

10-11-10, 16:52	#69
Phlip Inactive Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: England ♂ Posts: 31,273	Here's another PC version difference: [IMG]http://oi52.************/2la6gjo.jpg[/IMG] My PS1 original game does have the column, which allows you to get to the top of the building which is unfinished.