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Old 05-06-19, 10:10   #11191
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Oh that I agree with, but that is not what Pratchett said there. She said a story can't be interesting unless it says something about the world and our place in it, if it's political - our world political. Implying that all of those stories out there that are meant to be purely escapism and fun aren't good at all.
Oh bluuurp, sorry, wasn't paying enough attention
A lot of writers and game developers (and even movie and tv world) think like this, which is sad... That's what TV and games should be about - escapism.

Now, I do agree that it's so important to have LGBTQ+ etc. representation on TV, games etc. as "standard" as any presentation of any group. But not in your face -style like many go; "I can do this, because I am a woman!", said every 2 minutes by the lead female. Which makes me then wait for her to prove it that she can do it by her actions. Bad writing just everywhere to push whatever issue the world is facing, when it could be done so much better.

Like Lara, she has never basically said she can do something because she is a woman. She can do it because she has the expertise and the mental will to do it. We can see Lara is a woman. And we see her do those badass things. That's, for me, what a strong female character is. Applies to any character design in movies, tv, games etc. ,like I said above.
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Old 05-06-19, 10:16   #11192
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Originally Posted by Nigel Cassidy View Post
Oh that I agree with, but that is not what Pratchett said there. She said a story can't be interesting unless it says something about the world and our place in it, if it's political - our world political. Implying that all of those stories out there that are meant to be purely escapism and fun aren't good at all.
But, to be fair, everything is political to some people these days. A game with a female protagonist? That's political. A game featuring LGBTQ characters who aren't total caricatures? Political. A game with non-white characters you don't have to shoot at? Political.
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Old 05-06-19, 10:19   #11193
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Oh bluuurp, sorry, wasn't paying enough attention
A lot of writers and game developers (and even movie and tv world) think like this, which is sad... That's what TV and games should be about - escapism.

Now, I do agree that it's so important to have LGBTQ+ etc. representation on TV, games etc. as "standard" as any presentation of any group. But not in your face -style like many go; "I can do this, because I am a woman!", said every 2 minutes by the lead female. Which makes me then wait for her to prove it that she can do it by her actions. Bad writing just everywhere to push whatever issue the world is facing, when it could be done so much better.

Like Lara, she has never basically said she can do something because she is a woman. She can do it because she has the expertise and the mental will to do it. We can see Lara is a woman. And we see her do those badass things. That's, for me, what a strong female character is. Applies to any character design in movies, tv, games etc. ,like I said above.
I totally agree. The in-your-face approach seems incredibly juvenile to me, and rather than strength it screams insecurity and weakness.

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But, to be fair, everything is political to some people these days. A game with a female protagonist? That's political. A game featuring LGBTQ characters who aren't total caricatures? Political. A game with non-white characters you don't have to shoot at? Political.
It may be to some people but that doesn't mean the film/game/book is intending it to be that way. Steve Cortez in Mass Effect is gay but he doesn't feel like a token gay and the game is not making a song and dance about it or screaming 'gay power' or something like that. Compare that to the incredibly juvenile and cringeworthy trailer to Batwoman.

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Old 05-06-19, 10:44   #11194
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It may be to some people but that doesn't mean the film/game/book is intending it to be that way. Steve Cortez in Mass Effect is gay but he doesn't feel like a token gay and the game is not making a song and dance about it or screaming 'gay power' or something like that. Compare that to the incredibly juvenile and cringeworthy trailer to Batwoman.
This. The new "woke" age of grandstanding and tokenism really ruined most media for me.
As a child, I never really got the criticism levelled at the lack of well written female characters or POC characters. Well written female characters weren't an anomoly AT ALL. There were A LOT of well written female characters that didn't fall into the "imposing" or "strong" archetype. They were people first and foremost. Sooo many movies or shows or even games that I played had female characters that had depth and were well written. So much of the TV that I watched and books that I read had LGBTQ+ and minority characters that didn't exist for the sake of grandstanding or tokenism. This was wayyy back in the early 2000s where the Internet wasn't as prevalent as today.

And on the topic of gay characters: We had lots of great gay characters that didn't exist due to people complaining about them not existing. They were there as characters in a story. SOOOO many comic book characters in the early 80s and throughout the late 90s to the early 2000s were gay. Not a majority but they existed. The Young Avengers in 2005 had a gay couple but that wasn't all there was to them. No one made a fuss about them being gay. No one made a fuss about Karma from The New Mutants being a lesbian. Or Northstar for that matter. It's because grandstanding and pats on the back weren't the reason they existed. Soley filling a representation quota wasn't the purpose.

Like Yeauxleaux said, to me, it was a fight that was already won. I mean seriously, is this a first world country thing? I'm a person of color and none of us even complain about this ****.
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Old 05-06-19, 10:48   #11195
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I mean seriously, is this a first world country thing?
Most definitely...
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Old 05-06-19, 10:58   #11196
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I totally agree. The in-your-face approach seems incredibly juvenile to me, and rather than strength it screams insecurity and weakness.
Exactly. And it's more hurtful way than when done properly.
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Old 05-06-19, 11:09   #11197
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It may be to some people but that doesn't mean the film/game/book is intending it to be that way. Steve Cortez in Mass Effect is gay but he doesn't feel like a token gay and the game is not making a song and dance about it or screaming 'gay power' or something like that. Compare that to the incredibly juvenile and cringeworthy trailer to Batwoman.
My point was that what counts as a "political game" isn't all that clearly defined.

But to the question at hand, I think the main problem isn't so much whether a game deals with political issues but more how it handles those issues. If it tries to actively push a predefined message or viewpoint down people's throats, it will usually end up feeling corny and patronising. If you just show things as they are, show different points of view and present even the people you disagree with to be normal (if misguided) people rather than evil villains, it won't have that same effect. You need to give the audience some space to make up their own minds. And this doesn't mean that you need to present all sides of an issue in an equal or balanced manner, like, if you write a game about gay romance, you don't need to then also include homophobes going on about how wrong and disgusting gay people are. It just means that you shouldn't have characters suddenly break into inspirational speeches about equality and human rights in the middle of a grocery store or depict your protagonists as paragons of righteousness just because they're gay. Basically, don't paint issues as black-and-white, try to leave opinions to your characters, as opposed to your overall work and leave your audience some room for interpretation. For example, trust that they will be able to recognise inequality for themselves without needing to have it constantly pointed out to them.
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Old 05-06-19, 11:17   #11198
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My point was that what counts as a "political game" isn't all that clearly defined.
Agreed, it's a matter of how it feels. Poetry, not mathematics as they say.

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But to the question at hand, I think the main problem isn't so much whether a game deals with political issues but more how it handles those issues. If it tries to actively push a predefined message or viewpoint down people's throats, it will usually end up feeling corny and patronising. If you just show things as they are, show different points of views and present even the people you disagree with to be normal (if misguided) people rather than evil villains, it won't have that same effect. You need to give the audience some space to make up their own minds. And this doesn't mean that you need to present all sides of an issue in an equal or balanced matter, like, if you write a game about gay romance, you don't need to then also include homophobes going on about how wrong and disgusting gay people are. It just means that you shouldn't have characters suddenly break into inspirational speeches about equality and human rights in the middle of a grocery store or depict your protagonists as paragons of righteousness just because they're gay. Basically, don't paint issues as black-and-white, try to leave opinions to your characters, as opposed to your overall work and leave your audience some room for interpretation. For example, trust that they will be able to recognise inequality for themselves without needing to have it constantly pointed out to them.
Yes, that would be the way to do politics right in entertainment, but my original point was that I disagree with Rhianna Pratchett that a story has to go into politics to be interesting. I mean I don't see any political messages in The Muppet Movie, (not even when Fozzie is singing 'America the Beautiful'...) so I guess according to Pratchett this film is boring.
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Old 05-06-19, 16:01   #11199
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Uncharted 2, Uncharted 3 and Last of Us Multiplayer servers on PS3 will be closing on September 3rd 2019. All DLC is free.

Uncharted 2 and 3 were the best multiplayer games. Going to be sad to see them go.

Hopefully we'll get remasters at some point.
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Old 06-06-19, 06:55   #11200
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They couldn't have picked a worse deadline for ending the servers. -_-

This truly breaks my heart, as the TLoU multiplayer was my favorite thing ever. There goes my tradition of playing it drunk on New Year...now what only will be left are the videos and the memories that will forever make me laugh.

I hope the whole DLC being free applies worldwide, and that the PT PSN store has everything available this time, because I couldn't for the life of me find all the DLC packs on neither the PSN store, neither in-game store.

If I can access all DLC, I can finally attempt to 100% the trophy list for both UC2 and UC3, which is going to be torture (at least I have 3/5 of UC3 done). I'm still pissed that I have to do the Overseer trophy all over again, because I didn't have its DLC installed.

If I can't, that'll be just BS, and I'll be extra pissed at the PT PSN store.
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