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Old 05-08-21, 12:18   #311
justin
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Originally Posted by Kubsy View Post
There's a plugin in blender called "sprytile" which lets you texture like in strpix. I haven't used it much but it seems to be good.
Oh I'm gonna look into that!
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Old 05-08-21, 12:47   #312
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One thing that is clear is that there won't be an option for WadTool to save in .WAD format, for the same reason TE won't save into .PRJ format: these are old and very limited formats, and it would require specific developments to make WadTool adapt or remove what's not handled by .WAD, and it's too much development for very little outcome.

However, Strpix can import .OBJ (and other formats), and Wadtool can export to this format as well. I can't test it but maybe this is worth a shot? Then you can export back from Strpix into Wadtool (if Strpix can export with textures).

Of course, for the TR4 engine, you can just use classic .WAD, because TE can load multiple WADs and WAD2s in the same project, without having to merge them into a single .WAD. This is by far the easiest solution.

However, for other engines, maybe you can also fiddle classic .WAD (wait for Lwmte/MontyTRC/etc to confirm cause I don't want to give a solution that might give issues later): you could edit your objects in a classic .WAD, texture it via Strpix etc, and then import it into your .WAD2 using WadTool, making sure you put them back into the correct slot.
Or maybe you could even keep it in a classic .WAD (to avoid the extra step of importing back into .WAD2), just make sure the slot ID (number) matches the one of the target engine: for example, if you edit a TR2 PUZZLE_ITEM1, which slot ID would be 50 (this is a random number, I don't actually know), then in your WAD you have to choose whatever slot is slot 50 (even if it's called DOG in WadMerger, because WadMerger displays TR4 names).
Again, take this with a grain of salt, and wait for confirmation, or test if this doesn't give issues in-game. I know it's not recommended to use .WAD for other engines than TR4/TRNG.
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Old 05-08-21, 14:50   #313
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But why should you go the double way to work? So you can use the old WAD format directly. Most level builders want to save work and use the new format, but they also want to texturize objects correctly. But this is not possible, so you have to use the old format in order to use strpix. It is of course great that there is the new format. But unfortunately only half thought, as you can see, the wish is there for an alternative to strpix. would be a shame if you pissed off the level builders.
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Old 05-08-21, 15:08   #314
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Well, you are not supposed to texture in WadTool, It's merely an "asset management" with some small editing features (mesh rearrangement, vertex editing).
But texturing is not meant to be done in WadTool.
There are tools out there dedicated to texturing (Blender, 3Ds Max etc.) and thanks to the common formats like Obj, DAE you can now use them to uv map objects properly and import them without any obstacles.

Strpix texturing exists because there never was an actual alternative.
I mean if you remember, there was a time where importing/exporting textured object wasn't even a thing with strpix
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Old 05-08-21, 15:10   #315
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Originally Posted by Nemo20 View Post
But why should you go the double way to work? So you can use the old WAD format directly. Most level builders want to save work and use the new format, but they also want to texturize objects correctly. But this is not possible, so you have to use the old format in order to use strpix. It is of course great that there is the new format. But unfortunately only half thought, as you can see, the wish is there for an alternative to strpix. would be a shame if you pissed off the level builders.
It's not the .WAD2 format that is the issue, it's the tool that doesn't allow texturing.
And we agree that if one wants to use Strpix, they can keep these objects in .WAD. Some objects in .WAD, some objects in .WAD2 if needed, and it works perfectly.
But WadTool and the .WAD2 format are required for other engines than TR4, because classic tools, and the .WAD format don't support some features required for those engines (mainly for sprites if I remember correctly, but there might have been some other things I don't remember).

What I meant to say is implementing saving to .WAD in WadTool would be a huge work from a developer point of view, that would arise lots of question on how to downgrade several things not normally possible in WAD.
Again, I don't think making the new tools support saving to the old formats is a solution. Imagine if TE allowed saving to .PRJ: how should diagonal walls/steps be handled? How would flybys with indices above the .PRJ limit be handled? Ghost blocks? Imported geometry? Textures that are not in the "standard" format? A lot of things to downgrade to a limited format. It's not the solution.
The better solution would be allowing texturing in WadTool directly, but it's not a matter of not wanting at all to do it, it's just that there aren't people who are willing/able to do it currently. And it's not a priority either, because texturing objects is possible, it just requires another program. If it was completely impossible it would probably be a priority.
Also most of the devs are working on the TEN engine currently, and TE (and its tools) are in a stable state right now, which is why its developement is not a priority.

And when you think of it, we're already using an external program when using classic .WAD, which is Strpix. WadTool has the function WadMerger had, and WadMerger couldn't texture objects either, so we have to use Strpix instead, which is already an additional step. So all in all, using an external tool from WadTool doesn't add that many steps when you think about it.

Remember TE developers are also doing this in their free time, just like level builders, they're not paid to "obey" to demands. They do what they can, they've done a lot already, so you can't "piss them off" either. Level builders are not kings (nor are the devs), everyone is at the same level.

Although if you know developers that could and would do that, feel free to invite them to do it. That's the only thing we lack currently for WadTool texturing to happen.
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Old 06-08-21, 09:16   #316
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I am of course aware that the old format is not compatible. Precisely because the TE and the new engine also support a lot of new things.
The whole thing with a StrPix alternative was and is also a wish of the level builders. Not one that should be implemented immediately, but that should be thought about.
I asked about this a few months ago. There came directly from a couple of level builders, you don't need what you want with it, etc.
You also have to think a little further. Unfortunately, WADMerger crashes very often
WadTool is a great tool, I would like to use it for all WADs, but unfortunately currently not possible because I also need strpix.

Of course, I am aware that not many
Are developers in the TE team. And primarily that
Engine takes precedence, which is what I also want. Since I am longingly waiting for it.

But you just can't ignore the fact that many of them don't know Meta, Maya, 3Ds Max, Blender and that's exactly what you shouldn't give a damn about.
I know a little about Meta myself. I recently worked with UV mapping for the first time. But rather bad than good. I can't cope with it, trying around after 5 hours. I think that's just a bit inflexible. For small things, strpix is ​​the better choice.

I think texturing in wadtool would be too much. In my opinion, a strpix alternative should be created as a stand-alone program.

But since there are few developers, this is of course just a wish at the moment.


I am of course aware that the developers do this for free, like us level builders. I do this for fun too. So are the developers. You want to provide us with great new programs. And I thank every developer for that, from the bottom of my heart.
Without the TE, I would not have started building in 2019. Because I had taken a break for a few years, or had stopped. Then “Die Basis” told me about the TE and through the TE I started building again and it's more fun than the last few years.

So once again many thanks to every developer for your great work and future work on the TE, Engine, wadtool, Soundtool and TombIDE, you are great.
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Old 06-08-21, 09:37   #317
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Originally Posted by Joey79100 View Post
WadTool has the function WadMerger had, and WadMerger couldn't texture objects either, so we have to use Strpix instead, which is already an additional step.
You can actually texture using Wadmerger in the Animation editor. It's very basic but I remember doing that first before realising STRPIX was a thing.
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Old 06-08-21, 10:56   #318
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But you just can't ignore the fact that many of them don't know Meta, Maya, 3Ds Max, Blender and that's exactly what you shouldn't give a damn about.
As you all learnt how to use the editor, I don't see why you shouldn't learn also how to use new tools which turns the process of making objects in a much faster way than the standards known ways (except if we talk about a really simple object)
Also, you don't have to know the whole program to make objects but just a little part of it, which are basically how to create your mesh or object, and make a UV for that.
There are a lot of tutorials (especially for Blender) which you can use for TRLE no problem

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I know a little about Meta myself. I recently worked with UV mapping for the first time. But rather bad than good. I can't cope with it, trying around after 5 hours. I think that's just a bit inflexible. For small things, strpix is ​​the better choice.
Meta it's the worst when it comes to UV mapping, so I strongly recommend Blender for that, since it's reeeally more flexible than the first

The problem is also that implementing such texturing features requires a lot of work, so no wonder why no developer has tried to do it so far...
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Old 06-08-21, 14:58   #319
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Honestly I don't understand why people find UVW mapping so hard. If you use Blender you can pretty much texture stuff face by face the legacy way, only the reversed way (reset uv of a texture, then resize to the desired part of the texture but I heard there's a plugin that makes it possible to literally texture things like strpix).

For architecture it's even easier than that since you can just select particular faces and project from views, then resize uv selection and done. Meanwhile in case of outfits uvw makes it possible to avoid texture cutting process entirely.

Sometimes when reading some of the comments I feel like people say sth is hard only because they aren't willing to learn the new tools. The "legacy" way of dealing with textures and objects seems straightforward but in the end it takes twice as much time as it would if people would simply switch to TE, wad2 and Blender. WADTool with its uvw abilities allow to quickly make objects that have high polycount without one textured plastered all over every face of it.

I also recommend everyone to switch to Blender when working with TE. Blender is an amazing modelling program that has state of the art functionality similar to 3ds max and other paid products. It's recent versions have entirely revamped interface so it is way more user friendly than any other app I used (I tried both 3ds max and meta). The learning curve is steep but once you learn the very basics of interface the rest comes naturally. Also Blender is free and open-source, it is constantly updated and it works straight away. You don't have to mess around with language and formatting settings of your Windows to make it work correctly (as opposed to some embarrassing examples of old tools used within TRLE community).

Last edited by Caesum; 06-08-21 at 15:10.
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Old 06-08-21, 17:11   #320
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Sometimes when reading some of the comments I feel like people say sth is hard only because they aren't willing to learn the new tools. The "legacy" way of dealing with textures and objects seems straightforward but in the end it takes twice as much time as it would if people would simply switch to TE, wad2 and Blender. WADTool with its uvw abilities allow to quickly make objects that have high polycount without one textured plastered all over every face of it.
Then maybe it would also be good if the people where make tutorials on this. Then people can cope better with it.
I also checked out Blender. It was the first time I had to deal with it and at first glance I just think it's big and powerful. It is clear that you have to deal with it a lot.
But one thing is that some people work until the evening and then don't have 10 hours a day to deal with it. When I come home, I still have time for 4 hours a day. And so I still have to eat, visit my family, build levels, etc.
And of course Blender does not have the highest priority to learn intensively

And I think many of them are sure too.

Back in 2000, when the Level Editor came out, I dealt with the old LE. Then came into the TE very well. I could still use Meta from back then. But times change accordingly. You just don't have as much time as you did a few years ago.

Therefore, you shouldn't lump everyone together who might not be able to work intensively on these tools.

I like to learn new things, I also enjoy it. But I also have to be able to reconcile this with my time. My priorities in terms of level editor are more in building, for that I have to take the time accordingly, so, as mentioned, Blender does not have such a high priority.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LoreRaider View Post
As you all learnt how to use the editor, I don't see why you shouldn't learn also how to use new tools which turns the process of making objects in a much faster way than the standards known ways (except if we talk about a really simple object)
Also, you don't have to know the whole program to make objects but just a little part of it, which are basically how to create your mesh or object, and make a UV for that.
There are a lot of tutorials (especially for Blender) which you can use for TRLE no problem

Lore, you don't know people why they haven't looked at it yet. Do not forget that everyone does not have hours a day, may have difficulties with such programs, or whatever the reason.

The discussion is actually unnecessary. We, who express the wish for such a tool. I emphasize "WISH". No "you should do". One can discuss whether it will be implemented is another matter.

Or do you also forbid everyone to submit wishes and ideas for TE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoreRaider View Post
Meta it's the worst when it comes to UV mapping, so I strongly recommend Blender for that, since it's reeeally more flexible than the first

The problem is also that implementing such texturing features requires a lot of work, so no wonder why no developer has tried to do it so far...

Yes, Meta is a mess when it comes to UV mapping. I agree with you.
I am also aware that such a texturing tool means work. But let's be honest. Tomb Editor also wants to offer a lot of new things. Why SoundTool? You can also use the old method.
Therefore one can also argue like this on this point

I am of course aware that the sound tool supports TR1-TR3. Therefore, of course, it has its right to exist. But nothing changes at the main point of the argument.


I emphasize again. It is just a WISH, which is from the level builders who just don't "yet" get along with Blender and co.

Last edited by Nemo20; 06-08-21 at 17:27.
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