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Old 24-11-19, 18:49   #1
OrangeJuice
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Default A Thought on Rise/Shadow's structure

im really comin to terms with what ruins the rise/shadow experience for me. there's so much to love about these games but what i really do not enjoy is how they're structured.
im not even gonna mention the storytelling bc... well, but like, i feel the best content in these games is entirely optional.
the best tombs and the best crypts and some of the the most beautiful vistas in shadow are completely optional and they're integrated so poorly into the experience that it makes it fall apart imo.
im not against side missions/optional content but god it's a tomb raider game, it's about exploration at its core: make it mandatory to explore. make it so lara needs to explore said crypts and tombs in order to reach story objectives because otherwise it's such a waste of excellent material. very few people care about 100%ing a game.
and also if you have such a huge amount of optional content (like in paititi or in the biggest hubs in rise) it's gonna drag down the pacing so so much. on the other hand if you manage to implement it into the storyline and make it relevant to what's going on for the characters it's gonna flow better. idk.
like. tr2013 did this better because yes you had some optional tombs but really the main campaign was where the substance was at and it was a ride.
rise and shadow's main campaigns can feel so stale and repetitive and that gives the games a bad rep but it's such a shame because if they weren't afraid of having the tombs and the crypts well-tied into it that could solve it imo.

i dont know maybe im wrong as hell lmao.
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Old 24-11-19, 20:26   #2
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I think the intent with keeping the tombs/puzzles separate and optional are to allow players who are just into action to skip these sections. I think the challenge tombs are a reasonable way to achieve that but I would drop the crypts though as they were way too small to be exciting.
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Old 24-11-19, 20:43   #3
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Originally Posted by Error96 View Post
I think the intent with keeping the tombs/puzzles separate and optional are to allow players who are just into action to skip these sections. I think the challenge tombs are a reasonable way to achieve that.
It's not reasonable at all, being this Tomb Raider. It's we that should be protected from the dozens of arena shooting segments by making them optional.
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Old 24-11-19, 20:53   #4
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I do agree with the OP, in a specific way of my own. I've always thought that in the case of Shadow, it would have benefited heaps if the game was re-organised into a level-after-level structure, similar to TR1-3, with backtracking and exploration within the levels themselves, but not in between levels. I know loads of people will disagree with this, but I can imagine Shadow's hubs and tombs being compartmentalised into a linear over-arching structure, but each stage itself being it's own fully explorable mini world, while cutting the fat and keeping the pace in tact.
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I think the intent with keeping the tombs/puzzles separate and optional are to allow players who are just into action to skip these sections.
I'm sorry but they're playing the wrong game for their tastes. TR should not bend over to cater to dudebros.
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Old 24-11-19, 22:00   #5
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Shadow was completely ruined by paititi, if all the effort put into making that theme park would've been spent making interesting areas worth exploring with some combat to use half of our psychopathic murder centred skill trees the game could've been made more cohesive rather than laura having cute vacations in the middle of attempting to stop the apocalypse her dumbass started

Just imagine getting to a smaller paititi reclaimed by nature that branches off into other hubs where you slowly discover information about the disappearance of the natives or some interesting bs that doesnt feel like rise all over again
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Old 24-11-19, 23:06   #6
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It is not about the number of the tombs and puzzles. Is about the complexity and difficulty. You can have only have 2 or 3 mandatory tombs in the whole game but make them stand out compared to the optional ones. Make them 10 times larger with multiple puzzle sections that all connect in one big puzzle.
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Old 24-11-19, 23:35   #7
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Originally Posted by Persefone View Post
Shadow was completely ruined by paititi, if all the effort put into making that theme park would've been spent making interesting areas worth exploring with some combat to use half of our psychopathic murder centred skill trees the game could've been made more cohesive rather than laura having cute vacations in the middle of attempting to stop the apocalypse her dumbass started

Just imagine getting to a smaller paititi reclaimed by nature that branches off into other hubs where you slowly discover information about the disappearance of the natives or some interesting bs that doesnt feel like rise all over again
Honestly would have preferred this. I've said it countless times but the wonder is the history and wondering how it was before. Theres nothing majestic about a massive hub full of people because its like any other game out there these days. I really liked the area outside of Paititi as it felt deserted, dangerous and menacing. Similarly the whole area of Libertalia in Uncharted 4 was so impressive because it was half destroyed and it was so great wondering how it would have been when people actually lived there. Modern TR needs more things like this.
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Old 25-11-19, 01:15   #8
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Honestly would have preferred this. I've said it countless times but the wonder is the history and wondering how it was before. Theres nothing majestic about a massive hub full of people because its like any other game out there these days. I really liked the area outside of Paititi as it felt deserted, dangerous and menacing. Similarly the whole area of Libertalia in Uncharted 4 was so impressive because it was half destroyed and it was so great wondering how it would have been when people actually lived there. Modern TR needs more things like this.
Ever since I saw the cgi trailer I though paititi was gonna be a small hostile fortress and you'd have to navigate around dangerous jungle (rivers with strong currents, snakes, tigers, etc) like TR3' India, just way more fun than having to hear the same souless NPC's (dont they all have the sake VA? Lmfao) who repeat the same lines over and over, and explore an uninteresting city with boring side quests
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Old 25-11-19, 02:59   #9
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I thought Rise balanced everything well but Shadow just had way too many "optional" tombs. I wanted to do a playthrough of the game where I completed the tombs as I went along, ending the game only after completing all the tombs, but the tombs really mess with the pacing of the story.

In Rise, there were only 8-9 tombs? Shadow had 9 tombs in Paititi, alone.
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Old 25-11-19, 03:25   #10
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I thought Rise balanced everything well but Shadow just had way too many "optional" tombs. I wanted to do a playthrough of the game where I completed the tombs as I went along, ending the game only after completing all the tombs, but the tombs really mess with the pacing of the story.

In Rise, there were only 8-9 tombs? Shadow had 9 tombs in Paititi, alone.
There were 9 optional tombs total in both Rise and Shadow. Are you thinking of the crypts?
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