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Old 29-04-20, 00:18   #1
Mutant Messiah
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Default Naughty Dog and the TLOU2 controversy (non-spoilers).

While we're at it, I just saw this video (I'm gonna slightly do a segue here)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJMj3B1BFko&t=459s

Just my brief two cents...

If "sexualized" Lara was still in the reboot and it retained that third person shooter mechanics, the reboot games may have sold more.

I have a handful of friend gamers that are females. And one of their favorites....is 2B of Nier Automata. Far more sexualized than Lara will ever be.

Anyway, I just saw the TLOU2 leaks. Good thing I have not invested on that franchise yet.

What are your thoughts? Have LGBT / SJW agendas gone too far?

Last edited by Mutant Messiah; 29-04-20 at 00:20.
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Old 29-04-20, 00:20   #2
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Old 29-04-20, 00:29   #3
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Ooops. Sorry. Didn't see it.
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Old 29-04-20, 01:16   #4
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Is this about Ellie being a dyke, again? I must have missed the reactionary memo - when exactly did normies stop being into conventionally attractive lesbians?

EDIT: Oh, I saw this video back in 2017.

I find the claim (around 14:29) that, "men do not feel bad about idealized masculinity", incredibly disingenuous.

Men do feel bad about idealized masculinity, and it affects some of them greatly - far more than I've ever seen any woman be (outwardly) affected by idealized femininity.

Just look at the ****ing incel community - which is comprised in large part of gamers, or else their jargon wouldn't read like a ****ing Age of Empires strategy guide...

These guys are bringing back phrenology from the ****ing 1800s because they, in all of their socialized entitlement, cannot conceive of a beauty standard they aren't allowed to reach.

(which, we do have patriarchal structures to thank for, but not for the reason you'd default to)

Women, on the other hand, just starve themselves - which is ****ing horrible, don't get me wrong, but on a societal level I'd rather deal with that, lmao.

I'd rather have a few harpies mad on the internet about meaningless sexualization, screaming into the void - than a ****ing death cult of virgins losing their **** over a skirt being changed to a pair of short shorts. As we've seen happen.

One group makes up the majority of the gamer demographic, one doesn't. I'll let you figure out which one is which, and hence, which group has the greater degree of power (if any) to sway decisions made by video game developers and publishers.

That **** is really scary. I don't appreciate the notion of there being some "agenda", when the outrage you hear about 9 times out of 10 is because "why booby no big" - not because anyone actually came on record wondering why Tifa's spine didn't snap like a dry twig, way back in 1997...

Last edited by tomblover; 29-04-20 at 01:59.
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Old 29-04-20, 03:39   #5
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Originally Posted by Mutant Messiah View Post

If "sexualized" Lara was still in the reboot and it retained that third person shooter mechanics, the reboot games may have sold more.

I have a handful of friend gamers that are females. And one of their favorites....is 2B of Nier Automata. Far more sexualized than Lara will ever be.
Honestly, I'm one of the people who think Lara's reputed sexualization was massively overblown. And I say that as someone who'd describe themselves as a feminist/SJW.

Sure, the marketing was often flirty and full of innuendo, but the actual games?
Aside from a handful of throwaway lines, Lara's not portrayed in a way that emphasizes her sexual nature at all. But a lot of magazines and articles I read back in the 90s...they acted like Tomb Raider was Dead or Alive XTreme.
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Old 29-04-20, 04:13   #6
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Originally Posted by tomblover View Post
Is this about Ellie being a dyke, again? I must have missed the reactionary memo - when exactly did normies stop being into conventionally attractive lesbians?

EDIT: Oh, I saw this video back in 2017.

I find the claim (around 14:29) that, "men do not feel bad about idealized masculinity", incredibly disingenuous.

Men do feel bad about idealized masculinity, and it affects some of them greatly - far more than I've ever seen any woman be (outwardly) affected by idealized femininity.

Just look at the ****ing incel community - which is comprised in large part of gamers, or else their jargon wouldn't read like a ****ing Age of Empires strategy guide...

These guys are bringing back phrenology from the ****ing 1800s because they, in all of their socialized entitlement, cannot conceive of a beauty standard they aren't allowed to reach.

(which, we do have patriarchal structures to thank for, but not for the reason you'd default to)

Women, on the other hand, just starve themselves - which is ****ing horrible, don't get me wrong, but on a societal level I'd rather deal with that, lmao.

I'd rather have a few harpies mad on the internet about meaningless sexualization, screaming into the void - than a ****ing death cult of virgins losing their **** over a skirt being changed to a pair of short shorts. As we've seen happen.

One group makes up the majority of the gamer demographic, one doesn't. I'll let you figure out which one is which, and hence, which group has the greater degree of power (if any) to sway decisions made by video game developers and publishers.

That **** is really scary. I don't appreciate the notion of there being some "agenda", when the outrage you hear about 9 times out of 10 is because "why booby no big" - not because anyone actually came on record wondering why Tifa's spine didn't snap like a dry twig, way back in 1997...
Incels are crazy people and aren't fueled by video games at all. I was pretty much a loner in school too and had to deal with Chad's and their masculine personality. Especially on TV where they have such tough and "manly" sterotypes, but I never even came close to being like an incel.

The problem with incels is the fact they they believe they are entitled to be with someone. They think they are entitled to sex, love, ect, but often don't realize that their actions, mindsets, ect turn people off. Even a big fat guy like me was able to attract a few interests.

I hate incels as much as I dislike feminists honestly. Both sides believe they are entitled to something that most people don't feel entitled to at all.
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Old 29-04-20, 05:40   #7
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Incels are crazy people and aren't fueled by video games at all. I was pretty much a loner in school too and had to deal with Chad's and their masculine personality. Especially on TV where they have such tough and "manly" sterotypes, but I never even came close to being like an incel.

The problem with incels is the fact they they believe they are entitled to be with someone. They think they are entitled to sex, love, ect, but often don't realize that their actions, mindsets, ect turn people off. Even a big fat guy like me was able to attract a few interests.

I hate incels as much as I dislike feminists honestly. Both sides believe they are entitled to something that most people don't feel entitled to at all.
In my personal experience, I've found that the majority of incels are gamers, no doubt because gaming used to be an "outsider" sort of thing - and because, more or less every form of entertainment is rooted in the idea of escapism, gaming especially so.

Gaming, which is now threatened - or so they say - by women.

I understand why you would pitch feminists and incels as opposites, but I think feeling entitled to someone else's time, touch, money and attention (quoth Lana Del Rey) - is way different from lobbying for inclusivity, even if this is sometimes done in a clumsy way.

(lobbying which has nothing to do with censorship, by the way - and everything to do with breaking away from the mold, so that games can be less formulaic and more artistic, like they used to be)

Maybe your experience is different, but I don't really see feminists demanding change so much as (I will grant you, very fervently) suggesting it.

The problem is, when these suggestions at last are taken into consideration - the fanboys suffer a collective hernia and construe it as censorship.

Which is because they changed it, so now it sucks.

Most video games nowadays are either sequels or remakes, after all, because the industry is so financially high-stakes that risks are only unwillingly taken on new IPs.

You don't really see anyone complaining when a new IP has a consciously progressive bent, though. Life is Strange was a thunderous success.

I wish we'd get more of those new IPs, but that won't happen until the manchildren can plug their ends up and stop ****ting themselves at the slightest of changes in the IPs that developers and publishers are comfortable working with at this time.

Last edited by tomblover; 29-04-20 at 05:45.
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Old 01-05-20, 09:19   #8
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Originally Posted by Mutant Messiah View Post
While we're at it, I just saw this video (I'm gonna slightly do a segue here)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJMj3B1BFko&t=459s

Just my brief two cents...

If "sexualized" Lara was still in the reboot and it retained that third person shooter mechanics, the reboot games may have sold more.

I have a handful of friend gamers that are females. And one of their favorites....is 2B of Nier Automata. Far more sexualized than Lara will ever be.

Anyway, I just saw the TLOU2 leaks. Good thing I have not invested on that franchise yet.

What are your thoughts? Have LGBT / SJW agendas gone too far?
Im not so much intrested in the leaks of the game.
Im more intrested in the overall handling of the workers in this company and i came to the conclusion if the allegations are true (and lets be real here, they probably are), then Naughty Dog can go straight to hell.

so whats the issue here:

a) Developers were promised a bonus 6 months after the games release.
Since the coronavirus outbreak delayed the release, all that planning for that money went out of the window.
b) Upon asking for paying at least a potion in advance, workers have been told that this is not happening (even though the corona crisis puts many lifes at risk)
c) The higher ups got payed though, leaving the majority in the drain.
d) Upon further requesting, people got told they will be terminated if they further ask for their share.

The leak is the result of mismanagment inside the company and one does not have to be a messias to understand how bad it got if someone is willing to leak that much to the puplic. (basically the whole game is now leaked, with pictures and videos and everything)

No developer would leak that much without good reason. (they are not insane folks, that is indeed a desperate attempt for justice)

To put it mildly: I hope this game flops on all ends. Naughty Dog is one shell of a company now.
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Old 01-05-20, 09:56   #9
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a) Developers were promised a bonus 6 months after the games release.
Since the coronavirus outbreak delayed the release, all that planning for that money went out of the window.
That is unfortunate but not NDs fault, nobody expected a global pandemic.
Working on a AAA game is already hard enough when you have the people in the studio.

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b) Upon asking for paying at least a potion in advance, workers have been told that this is not happening (even though the corona crisis puts many lifes at risk)
ND must manage their budget too like any other big business, so understandable that they arent willing or able to pay...again, the pandemic has caused a lot of problems.
Its a rather "normal" business move, ****ty from a human perspective sure, but the nature of the beast.

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c) The higher ups got payed though, leaving the majority in the drain.
That is indeed ****ty as hell, if the workers dont get paid then shouldnt the higher ups...simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Scilli View Post
d) Upon further requesting, people got told they will be terminated if they further ask for their share.
That is even more ****ty and ****ed up.
Not even EA i think treats people like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scilli View Post
The leak is the result of mismanagment inside the company and one does not have to be a messias to understand how bad it got if someone is willing to leak that much to the puplic. (basically the whole game is now leaked, with pictures and videos and everything)

No developer would leak that much without good reason. (they are not insane folks, that is indeed a desperate attempt for justice)
Yeah, you treat your workers bad and they lash out the only way they know.
Add to that the whole "crunch" issue during development, no wonder someone does something like that.

You "force" them to work themself to the bone, dont pay them while you pay yourself...thats ****ty.

Quote:
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To put it mildly: I hope this game flops on all ends. Naughty Dog is one shell of a company now.
Eh, personally im not a fan of this "i hope it flops" because while the higher ups are assholes, hundreds of good people worked on this game and poured a part of themself in it.
I get your point, but the sad thing is that the higher ups who **** up...wouldnt get hurt at all when the game flops.
They get their share and all that.
Its the hard working people that will get hurt, lose their jobs and money.
That is the messed up reality of any business sadly.
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Old 01-05-20, 11:33   #10
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Unfortunately you can't hurt the higher ups of a company without hurting the normal staff. From a consumer perspective at least.
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