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Old 25-06-19, 13:29   #25991
Vaskito
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I didn't like how Rise did exploration either, but I'd rather take tight, intuitive and to the point over the "break into these guys' house and mash Action X N hours" of Paititi any single day of the week. In fact, I stopped after 5 minutes.
like they say, sometimes less is more.
SOTTRs side quests involved more than "Just mashing A and B". This is a really shortsighted way of describing them. Every quest has a story involved, and it leads to exploration and basically every quest will lead you near Tombs and Crypts to explore, beyond the story of the quest itself. In ROTTR all you had to do was - get x. Kill Y. Destroy Z - it lacked any kind of depth when compared to SOTTR

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and yes, quests sucked in Rise, we know, nobody wanted those, but making me blindly walk from A to B to C like Shadow is much worse if you ask me.

They want you to be immersed... but then you have to open the map every 3 seconds ok then.
The NPCs always tell you where you should head. If you check the map, it's at your own choice, or because you either didn't pay attention to the directions they give you, or you cba to explore it by yourself. You're blaming the ability to access the map, that it's optional? If you want to get immersed, stop breaking it yourself - the game gives you the option to. Logic 101


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or just scrap the entire HUB nonsense and make the ""lore"" and ""ancient culture"" thing part of a linear and gameplay oriented campaign. you want me to care? like really really care? make those stories count by making them necessary in order to solve/overcome whatever mandatory mistery/obstacle that prevents me from progressing.
You have the main plot all laid out to you in the main campaign. It's made in a way so every important portion to the story is displayed to you without the effort of looking for it. A deeper dive, "boring" portion (for the people who don't care about deeper stuff, such as Amaru having a brother, or how Trinity took control over over Patiti, and so on) of the Lore is also available for people who are invested in it. To the general player, it doesn't matter where Andres Lopez went, what he did with the Silver Box - it only matters that he took it away, and hid it somewhere else - to the lore aficionado, it's always interesting to learn more about his expedtition, and stuff he did, and what happened, in detail, from begining to end. The game is inclusive to two different parties - in my book, that's not something bad.

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but no, we can't have that, because it doesn't make for 20 hours minimum of playtime, people like openworld games and get stuck in puzzles.
This is incredibly shortsighted. Let people enjoy their extra content. There are people, like me, who enjoy getting more info about the world where the game is set. Small details that immerses one in the world they are playing.

It's OPTIONAL, extra content, and extra pieces of story, and in no way affects the main campaign - in only enriches it
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Old 25-06-19, 13:37   #25992
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SOTTRs side quests involved more than "Just mashing A and B". This is a really shortsighted way of describing them.
because I was talking about exploration...

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The NPCs always tell you where you should head.
false.

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You have the main plot all laid out to you in the main campaign...
nothing to do with what I said

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This is incredibly shortsighted.
but it's true. where were you when we were here SMH-ing at those complaining on twitter that they couldn't beat the puzzles of this game?

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and in no way affects the main campaign
thanks for proving my point
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Old 25-06-19, 13:40   #25993
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because I was talking about exploration...
SOTTRs side quests will lead you to exporation. Way more than just going at a random tree collecting wood, or killing a boar.

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false.
Next time, pay more attention to the NPC conversation then.

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nothing to do with what I said
Please explain then

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but it's true. where were you when we were here SMH-ing at those complaining on twitter that they couldn't beat the puzzles of this game?
What does having extra content, with side stories, have anything to do with people having difficulty to solve the puzzles? And from what I remember from last weeks, some in here were outright joking about such people being mentally incapable

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thanks for proving my point
What point was yours? To remove content you don't care about, but other people do?
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Old 25-06-19, 13:55   #25994
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I agree with Vaskito, i don't understand how you can prefer ROTTR side quests when the ones in Shadow were better, with more story and more variety...
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Old 25-06-19, 14:01   #25995
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I agree with Vaskito, i don't understand how you can prefer ROTTR side quests when the ones in Shadow were better, with more story and more variety...
And that actually leads one to exploration. You get sent to multiple places, during the side quests, which will lead you near Tombs and Crypts - yes, the map use makes it trivial for sure, but one only uses it at will
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Old 25-06-19, 14:03   #25996
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I agree with Vaskito, i don't understand how you can prefer ROTTR side quests when the ones in Shadow were better, with more story and more variety...
because he likes that?
Who are you to judge him because of it?
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Old 25-06-19, 14:15   #25997
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I agree with Vaskito, i don't understand how you can prefer ROTTR side quests when the ones in Shadow were better, with more story and more variety...
Cause they sucked
those in Rise sucked too, but were way less annoying.

go there and kill enslavers (while the girl in charge of the village is talking nouvelle cousine with my buddy at the pub, no less. "I'm the one in charge here!! oohohohoh" yeah right)

search for 5 people in random places (map required) and hear 'em talk

"solve" a mistery by pressing E on people

press E on a kid, then press E on a group of kids so they will distract the guard so that I can press E on another kid

press E on 3 murals (map required, unless you want to waste your time) and go kill parrot dudes while dressed as an undercover parrot

some others I think but ehi, it's been a while.


and no, Vaskito, you will easly discover cripts and tombs by just walking along the perimeter of the area or where there's no one around, or swimming for 5 seconds tops. they're caverns. or did you expect them to just sit in the middle of the village?
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Old 25-06-19, 14:22   #25998
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I really didn't like how some crypts were behind a side mission lock. Like the part above the waterfall in Paititi, I found the place by myself but I didn't trigger the mission yet. Then you talk to someone and suddenly there's an entrance? Let me find stuff by myself please, it's much more rewarding. The hubs in shadow sucked big time. I prefer TR2013 and Rise by miles in this department
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Old 25-06-19, 14:39   #25999
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How you see it:
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Cause they sucked
those in Rise sucked too, but were way less annoying.

go there and kill enslavers (while the girl in charge of the village is talking nouvelle cousine with my buddy at the pub, no less. "I'm the one in charge here!! oohohohoh" yeah right)

search for 5 people in random places (map required) and hear 'em talk

"solve" a mistery by pressing E on people

press E on a kid, then press E on a group of kids so they will distract the guard so that I can press E on another kid

press E on 3 murals (map required, unless you want to waste your time) and go kill parrot dudes while dressed as an undercover parrot

some others I think but ehi, it's been a while.
How it actually pans out:
  • Talk to a NPC to trigger the side mission
  • Get a first impression of what's happening
  • Explore the environment to take a deeper and how it ties directly into the issue the NPC is going through
  • Go back, after findind out extra lore, talk with the NPC, in which a solution is determined
  • So solve the problem - either by engaging in combat, solving a Tomb, platforming, or a mix of the three.
  • Return to the NPC, and finish the mission with enriched Lore about side characters, or about the backstory that backs up the main plot in some way, or about Lara's self reflection (such as, for example, the dices side mission, and talking with outsiders, resulting in Lara realizing that sometimes a sacrífice can make your life better, and you shouldn't be strained by the legacy of your family, and can trace your own path instead

And this is the kind of stuff lore aficionados are interested about. It's more story heavy stuff, and it's optional. Win-win

Then you have the DLC stuff, which is the side missions expanded upon, also backed up with side stories that again enriches the lore, but also with greater gameplay challenges.

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and no, Vaskito, you will easly discover cripts and tombs by just walking along the perimeter of the area or where there's no one around, or swimming for 5 seconds tops.
So you mean it triggers exploration. We're on the same page then

And yes, by all means I think it should be expanded upon and be made less obvious. like removing the audio and visual cues. Still, there are some tombs and Crypts in SOTTR that actually require some kind of deeper exploration, and aren't only reduced to walk around aimlessly - and so did ROTTR with a couple of ones too. Temple of The Sun in SOTTR comes to mind as one example
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Old 25-06-19, 14:49   #26000
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I really didn't like how some crypts were behind a side mission lock. Like the part above the waterfall in Paititi, I found the place by myself but I didn't trigger the mission yet. Then you talk to someone and suddenly there's an entrance? Let me find stuff by myself please, it's much more rewarding.
I think that had was part of the one-eyed baldy's quest?
yeah it was annoying, but the place was easly distintive and recognizable anyway, I didn't mind that too much.


back to one particular point Vaskito brought up... I'm not asking content to be removed.
That I can do it myself by just running straight to the story missions the second I reach Paititi.
I'm asking for this content to make sense, actually matter, be better, involve some gameplay. Pressing E on people isn't.
again, it's been done before.
play this game,
https://www.gog.com/game/vampire_the...ade_bloodlines
which is literally only made of "sidestories" and "lore",
and come tell me Shadow did hubs and quests the best it could.

but ehi if you think that asking for a linear campaign where lore, stories and whatever are actually well integrated in the actual mechanics and puzzle solving aspect of the game is literally removing content and not allowing people to enjoy the side yadayada... Resident Evil says hi.


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So you mean it triggers exploration. We're on the same page then
ahah yeah no, don't play dumb with me.

I literally mean that you can reach all the ""hidden"" locations of the map by just walking, aimlessly.
No need for quests. don't give 'em more credits than they deserve.
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