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Old 21-06-24, 10:52   #5481
topazlink
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Sorry for the incoming mess of a post lol.

I have conflicting feelings about the Bayonetta series. I'm not good at them, but I wish I was. Bayo 1 has the best story but some enemies/attacks seem kinda BS and seem to hit frame 1, or have like a grab attack that you literally cannot dodge. Some attacks also don't trigger Witch Time when dodged. I'll never unlock Jeanne or Zero legit, I'll never get Platinums for every chapter and I'll never beat the Lost Chapter, though I did still manage to unlock everything else and used the in-game cheats to get Jeanne and Zero. With all three characters I got all weapons, accessories, alfheims, bewitchments, beat all difficulties and beat Rodin by cheesing him (I could never even scratch him by trying to fight "normally") etc.

You have to look online to find what all the unlocks are, it's easy to miss something because the game doesn't tell you that beating the game within a certain completion time, or beating 100 chapters unlocks something and such.

Bayo 2 is a very pretty game and very fun, but feels too rollercoaster-y, you're being almost dragged forward constantly and it's hard to really get a sense of the world because you use like portals a bunch and it gets a bit confusing. They changed how Witch Time works too, I think, but it still works just fine. Too many walk-and-talk sections and Loki complaining about you being too slow, then also complaining if you're too fast, and they repeated the whole "Bayo shoots at you without warning, but she's actually shooting an enemy behind you" thing way too much. I think the story only really starts when it begins tying itself back into Bayo 1, the whole Jeanne dying thing was poorly done and not believable, there should've been more of a fight, especially seeing as you defeat it immediately afterwards.

The idea of the demons breaking free from their control was not properly explained in-game and if they'd put the time in to make that clearer then it'd make more sense. I unlocked everything and beat Rodin legit. Though I never beat the last Witch Trial, there's no reward for that anyway, I think? Thankfully you don't need to have a separate save file per character. I wish they let you play as Rodin and Balder in the main game though, instead of only in Tag Climax.

I don't mind having extra lore stuff in the book fragments you find around the place (they all have that), but the important stuff should be in the actual story. This was a huge issue in Bayo 3, some of that extra stuff in 3 still has spelling/grammar mistakes too.

Bayo 3's story is weird and the execution of that story is also very strange. They needed to properly explain what was happening, which feels like an extension of the lack of explanation of the Eyes of the World and what no longer having them means from Bayo 2. Cutscenes are sometimes cut up weird, by that I mean that some aren't skippable because they contain a moment that requires a button prompt, and instead of splitting them properly so that you can skip straight to the point before the button prompt comes up, you have to watch the whole thing until after the button prompt before you're allowed to skip it. Bayo is often shown losing or getting victory in a way that doesn't feel victorious and it just feels kinda strange and off-putting.

The bad guy not being set up properly or being shown how they got that kind of power makes it feel kinda dumb because he's supposedly so strong, but keeps getting beaten. I like Viola, but don't like playing as her, apparently they "fixed" her gameplay, so I don't even wanna know how she played before that, but she doesn't feel right to me. They also ruined Witch Time, I have no idea how long it's supposed to last and kept getting hit immediately after it ends, and sometimes it only lasts for as long as the dodge animation is, so I thought I triggered Witch Time and was preparing a counter attack, but then it ended before I could do anything, it sucks. Viola's Witch Time is even weirder, not because you have to block to trigger it, but because you're thrown backwards a bit when you do. If they'd basically thrown out Bayo's control scheme and used Raiden's from Metal Gear Rising for Viola instead, I'd be much happier, contextualise the electrolytes as Viola's magic meter and Witch Time or something, I dunno.

There's also a surprising lack of extra costumes in 3, you'd think with the story that they'd bring back every costume from 1&2 but no, you get barely anything and the ability to change the colours of stuff does not make up for it. Sorta the same with the weapons too, there's plenty, but I expected more from 1&2 to come back, kinda understandable though maybe with the whole demon masquerade mechanic and all that I guess. They also made the "handguns" weapon worse, in 1&2, they had a full moveset, they just couldn't use wicked weaves, but in 3 because of how the weapon upgrades work, the handguns don't get their full moveset, so they can barely do anything.

The unlocks are weird, you gain access to the Climax Brace in the shop super early, which was like the most powerful thing ever in Bayo 1 and really hard to get, and is how I beat Rodin with all three characters in that game. But in Bayo 3 it's basically worthless. Many things that would've unlocked stuff in 1&2 don't in 3, the Bewitchments in particular are completely pointless, you get nothing for doing them. The game feels unfinished and the lack of proper rewards makes doing some things feel kinda hollow, just sorta arbitrary difficulty for the sake of it.

I beat everything (including the pointless bewitchments) that there was to do in 3. I'm still not gonna get Platinum for everything, even though they made it easier to do in 3. It saves your best score for individual fights, and you can jump right into a specific section of a chapter, instead of having to do the whole thing. Very nice quality of life feature.

I could talk about Bayo Origins too, but this post is already too far gone lol

Last edited by topazlink; 21-06-24 at 12:01.
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Old 23-06-24, 00:05   #5482
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@topazlink
I'm definitely with you when it comes to the issues in 1&2 (I still have to play 3)
Bayo 1's particular brutality just seems to be Kamiya being Kamiya, being such a huge DMC1 fan i'm definitely no stranger to how brutally hard he likes his hack and slash games and would bet that he probably got pissy about them making 2 a little more forgiving.

I'm coming to the end of my initial fling with Bayo 2 after a handful of playthroughs and my opinion of it has definitely improved, it has more depth than I realized. The 'just release' mechanic with the chainsaws, the distortion damage you can get from the hammer and what I initially thought was taking tetsuzanko's away from certain weapons, actually being a special dodge&attack move. It's an excellent sequel but I don't think i'll be quite as eager to come back to it the same way I have with 1.
But before that I gotta still play 3
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Old 23-06-24, 07:14   #5483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox45 View Post
@topazlink
I'm definitely with you when it comes to the issues in 1&2 (I still have to play 3)
Bayo 1's particular brutality just seems to be Kamiya being Kamiya, being such a huge DMC1 fan i'm definitely no stranger to how brutally hard he likes his hack and slash games and would bet that he probably got pissy about them making 2 a little more forgiving.

I'm coming to the end of my initial fling with Bayo 2 after a handful of playthroughs and my opinion of it has definitely improved, it has more depth than I realized. The 'just release' mechanic with the chainsaws, the distortion damage you can get from the hammer and what I initially thought was taking tetsuzanko's away from certain weapons, actually being a special dodge&attack move. It's an excellent sequel but I don't think i'll be quite as eager to come back to it the same way I have with 1.
But before that I gotta still play 3
The chainsaws are easily one my favourite weapons and are how I finally beat Rodin in 2, while playing as Jeanne. It was so satisfying beating him properly after trying so much and after I had to cheese him three times in Bayo 1 (once for each character). I have no idea how anyone can beat him properly in 1. I kinda wish the version of the Rodin weapon from 1 would return, where it's just Angel Arms, I miss some of the moves it can do. Maybe a version that's just Demon Arms too. You should try to beat Rodin in 3, the reward is pretty cool, the weapon works just like the version in 2, but you get more than that.
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Old 25-06-24, 16:01   #5484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topazlink View Post
I have conflicting feelings about the Bayonetta series. I'm not good at them, but I wish I was. Bayo 1 has the best story but some enemies/attacks seem kinda BS and seem to hit frame 1, or have like a grab attack that you literally cannot dodge. Some attacks also don't trigger Witch Time when dodged. I'll never unlock Jeanne or Zero legit, I'll never get Platinums for every chapter and I'll never beat the Lost Chapter, though I did still manage to unlock everything else and used the in-game cheats to get Jeanne and Zero. With all three characters I got all weapons, accessories, alfheims, bewitchments, beat all difficulties and beat Rodin by cheesing him (I could never even scratch him by trying to fight "normally") etc.

You have to look online to find what all the unlocks are, it's easy to miss something because the game doesn't tell you that beating the game within a certain completion time, or beating 100 chapters unlocks something and such.
I truly fell in love with Bayo 1 once I realized that it was indented for multiple playthroughs. My first run was filled with stone trophies and "Omg, this is ********!", but the game had so much personality that I had loads of fun anyway. On subsequent playthroughs, I really started learning combos, enemy tells & attack patterns, how to avoid stunlock, and various tricks that make certain gimmick sections much easier (I'm positive those workarounds were put there for the player to figure out). Solving Alfheim challenges and going for trophies helped me figure out some essential mechanics as well. Once you get it, it's really hard not to love. To this day, Bayo 1 is my favorite out of the three. If I feel like playing some Bayo, the first game is usually the one I pick up.
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Old 25-06-24, 20:59   #5485
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Bayonetta is the Yin to Bayonetta 2's Yang, what the first one does pitch perfect (combat) is much weaker in 2 (enemies can block at any moment, Wicked Weaves being weakened, Witch Time or Umbran Climax being mandatory), but what the original does terribly (platforming sections, Route 666, locking the Jeanne 3 fight between a ten minute Space Harrier crapshow, repeated environments) 2 improves so much on it's not even funny. It's far from a perfect game, but man do I enjoy it just as with the original.

And then there's Bayonetta 3 which threw absolutely everything including the kitchen sink at the player which, Well... Some of the stuff was great while other things are a hot mess. You can tell that development of the game was nowhere near what Platinum normally has, because man it's such an odd game.

And I just simply adore Origins, such a wonderful spin-off.
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Old 05-07-24, 18:09   #5486
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Decided to replay Bayo 3 on the off-chance I was too harsh on it when it came out, and... it's actually worse than I remember. The weird facial animations, the stilted and charmless dialogue/voice acting, the amorphous blobs they call "enemies", the crappy camera, the lifeless environments, the never-ending onslaught of half-broken minigames... Everything feels like a low-budget patchwork of ideas. I'm slogging through it because the combat system is undeniably fun, but it's really not enough to make up for everything that I hate about the game. I don't think I've ever felt this irritated with any sequel.

If Bayo 4 ever happens, I pray PG start with a totally fresh team (since all the key people who made B1&2 are gone anyway) and treat B3 like Capcom does DMC2 – take all the good bits and act as if it never happened otherwise.

Last edited by AshesBorn; 10-07-24 at 10:58.
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Old 05-07-24, 19:38   #5487
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I hate to say this but I actually haven't played Bayo 2 or 3. I'm just not a Nintendo person, so those games are closed behind the wall of exclusivity for me; therefore can't really comment on anything related to the gameplay experience, combat, or level design. I've made an effort to keep up with the storyline though which is what originally got me into the series in the first place, and made me buy a PS3 so I can fully experience Bayo 1 beyond the cutscene compilations on YouTube.

Imo, B3 really dropped the ball in terms of the plot in many regards, and the finale was truly..... a choice. Viola, imo, lacks the charisma and instant iconic factor Bayonetta has, so if she really is the receiver of Bayonetta's proverbial baton then I'm really not here for it.
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Old 05-07-24, 20:39   #5488
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The best part of the story of 3 is that every single time one of the alternate universe Bayo's gets killed, the main Bayo is just standing there like 🔫👁️👄👁️🔫
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Old 08-07-24, 13:31   #5489
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I hope someday we figure out what happened behind the scenes because clearly bayo 3 was not made with the same love and passion of the first two games.
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Old 10-07-24, 10:59   #5490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda master View Post
The best part of the story of 3 is that every single time one of the alternate universe Bayo's gets killed, the main Bayo is just standing there like 🔫👁️👄👁️🔫
It's mind-boggling how passive Bayonetta is throughout the game.
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