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Old 27-10-19, 10:42   #791
Kalaghima
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Originally Posted by Girafarig32 View Post




This wall where the plant is growing is climbable, but only from the top down.
Despite the simplicity of the bio facility(or the entire game in general), I love how organic the level designs are. Pretty rare compare to nowadays for some reason. Nice find btw! Thought it was just another set piece.
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Old 27-10-19, 13:34   #792
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I found out that in the Industrial Rooftops level you die instantly passing a fence.

But if you go to the building with a large medipack in it and run around (it is the same building you require a strength upgrade to jump to the other side) and walk to that fence, past the fence, shoot the dog (or ignore it), it is ok, you won't die.

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Old 27-10-19, 15:13   #793
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I found out that in the Industrial Rooftops level you die instantly passing a fence.

But if you go to the building with a large medipack in it and run around (it is the same building you require a strength upgrade to jump to the other side) and walk to that fence, past the fence, shoot the dog (or ignore it), it is ok, you won't die.
Yeah AOD has a few of those to make sure Lara can't survive drops she isn't supposed to, weirdly enough the Gate with a door that you cannot open ALSO has a scripted kill barrier despite the fact you normally cannot get through the door.
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Old 27-10-19, 15:40   #794
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I've been playing around with the debug menu and figuring out the upgrade system. I think at this point most of us know you can skip the upgrade in Industrial Rooftops named Jump Level 2. Which is intentional by the way.

But what really happens if you skip it?
- You will not be able to jump across inside the warehouse but you can jump across the rooftops to the final area.
- You will not be able to jump across the gap in the Abandoned Metro Tunnels before you complete the serpent rouge.

But can you complete the game without it?
- The game will automatically give you the upgrade you miss along with the new one you find, therefore you will acquire Jump Level 2 along with the next lower body upgrade you find which should be in the Serpent Rouge when you kick the bridge down. A 2 for 1 special if you will

What this tells us is some of the upgrades may seem optional but it really is an illusion and not at all what Core promised in the magazine interviews. I think this was done so no one would get stuck due to a lack of an optional path.

That said, there are some curious things to keep in mind. Remember that useless upgrade in St. Aicard's Church? It's a Level 2 Jump upgrade. Useful if you miss it in the rooftops level.
Also in the Prima Official Guide, it is described that you acquire a Jump Level 2 upgrade in the Serpent Rouge by pulling a box near the first structure that breaks when you walk on it. Alas, I couldn't get it to work on the PC.

Link to the Prima Guide page 57: https://archive.org/details/Tomb_Rai...Guide/page/n57

This is nothing new of course but I've never quite looked at it this way. I haven't been through the whole game yet but I'm positive there are more situations like this although nothing comes to mind at the moment. Do you know of any other upgrades you can skip and if so, what do you think are the consequences for skipping them?

Last edited by KIKO; 27-10-19 at 16:37.
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Old 27-10-19, 16:05   #795
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@KIKO that is interesting to think about. I know there is one upgrade you can avoid and still complete the game. In the bio research facility again (at least on PS2) you can actually make the jump across that broken bridge. You just need to press jump right at the last second, and this gets you across without the upgrade. I believe the same can be done for the other broken bridge that crosses the main entrance.
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Old 27-10-19, 18:19   #796
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Originally Posted by Girafarig32 View Post
@KIKO that is interesting to think about. I know there is one upgrade you can avoid and still complete the game. In the bio research facility again (at least on PS2) you can actually make the jump across that broken bridge. You just need to press jump right at the last second, and this gets you across without the upgrade. I believe the same can be done for the other broken bridge that crosses the main entrance.
Yeah you can do it on PC.

From what I gather the game actually just sets Lara's strength to a certain level, with upper/lower body having their own values.

So a level 4 Strength upgrade would always give you it even if you're level 1, I think.

Seems there's a few differences, I've only skimmed the Guide on the link you gave but it mentions using the V-Packer against the cleaner and I guess it also confirms that range-based damage is a thing.
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Old 27-10-19, 18:38   #797
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Originally Posted by Girafarig32 View Post
@KIKO that is interesting to think about. I know there is one upgrade you can avoid and still complete the game. In the bio research facility again (at least on PS2) you can actually make the jump across that broken bridge. You just need to press jump right at the last second, and this gets you across without the upgrade. I believe the same can be done for the other broken bridge that crosses the main entrance.
I also found that you can skip the upgrade on Derelict Apartment Block if you jump from the crate at the last second to grab the railing but it's not intentional and from what I gather that jump you mentioned seems unintentional as well. The game could've used some testing

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Yeah you can do it on PC.

From what I gather the game actually just sets Lara's strength to a certain level, with upper/lower body having their own values.

So a level 4 Strength upgrade would always give you it even if you're level 1, I think.

Seems there's a few differences, I've only skimmed the Guide on the link you gave but it mentions using the V-Packer against the cleaner and I guess it also confirms that range-based damage is a thing.
Yes, this is true as I've tested it myself on the PC with the debug menu. The guide has some interesting differences, I wonder what kind of build they were given

Another upgrade that seems optional is the Grip Level 2 you get at the unfinished area of Parisian Backstreets. Of course we can't assume it would stay this way as the area is of course unfinished but you don't need the upgrade to reach the courtyard and end the level. However if you do get it, you can reach the small platform in front of a window. Maybe they would've placed an item here as an incentive to get the upgrade?
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Old 27-10-19, 18:50   #798
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The guide has some interesting differences, I wonder what kind of build they were given
I was wondering that too, must be an early build for game magazines/beta testing.

It was a while when I read the prima guide. I noticed these differences:
  • The X-ray machine in the Galleries under siege level.
  • Skeleton with flaming sword in the Hall of Seasons
  • Mention of a second ammo for the Vpacker? Yellow box

I didn't study the upgrade system.
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Old 27-10-19, 19:05   #799
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Giving the player the upgrades he missed seems to go against the concept of "my Lara is different than your Lara" that one of the Smith brothers kept mentioning in his interviews. They probably planned for more alternate paths but I guess this was the solution they found for lack of them.

Does anyone think they should've scrapped the whole upgrade system?

The newer games seem to have a better grasp on the upgrade system as they let the players choose what they want to upgrade. Having said that, they do nothing but give players more combat options and easy ways to find missing items. They don't open up new paths as far as I recall.

Last edited by KIKO; 27-10-19 at 19:09.
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Old 27-10-19, 19:07   #800
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Originally Posted by KIKO View Post
Giving the player the upgrades he missed seems to go against the concept of "my Lara is different than your Lara" that one of the Smith brothers kept mentioning in his interviews. They probably planned for more alternate paths but I guess this was the solution they found for lack of them.

Does anyone think they should've scrapped the whole upgrade system?
Yep, most of the time you could pretty much switch them for a lever that moves a thing/opens the door you break down.

I guess I don't think it ruins the game too much, its not Postal III's awful attempt at an morality system bad.

I like the reboot's upgrade system less as its just tedious padded out weapon upgrades, at least with AOD its basically like finding switches rather than grinding EXP for plus 5 damage with the crappy pistol you don't even use because every fight gives you more rifle ammo than Lara can carry.

So I deleted some Lara Re-skins I was using (really just the less-shiny Lara.) and well, Lara glitched out in the level itself.

Interestingly enough this actually made the silencer appear as part of Lara's model.

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Last edited by Samz; 27-10-19 at 22:45.
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