Shadow of the Tomb Raider - General Chat

[LaraCroftSotTR]

Originally Posted by NoahCrofRaider

The thing is, I’ve seen people preferring Rise (or TR2013 too) as a whole over Shadow. That, or there’s only a small thing or two that they liked more in Shadow, but still, Rise is seen as largely better. Nonetheless, I get your point as I’ve seen that too, so things aren’t that bad.

Shadow is getting more appreciation as I see it.
(Topic; Which one is your favourite from Reboot Trilogy? and also in the TR PSN Communities)
But review-wise Rise is above ALL TR games except TR1.

And much better tombs aren't a small thing.
You also have better underwater exploration, better settings (for most), a cool photomode, improved stealth-skills,
a better Story (the scenes alone are great - just the overall story isn't that great - yet still better than Rise),
we've got a nice glimpse of young Lara - it's more than just one or two things.

Where it lacks the most is simply combat, despite having all those skills.
And that's because of the complains about too much combat in the previous games.
They really only needed to nail the ending, add more combat and make Paititi a bit more relevant and/or smaller
and the game would have been a blast for most.

[Patrick star]

The thing is , Rise felt the best in terms of balance , and honestly , kind of blew TR2013 out of the water for me (except in the thrill feeling and memorability , in which TR2013 easily excels and tops the other two) .

Shadow however didn't . Many of the best things in Shadow have actually started in Rise so naturally they sat out to improve them , they did well , but still not to "blowing the previous game out of the water" level . Obviously except for the difficulty options for which I really really appreciated EM , Shadow's music was also a lot better than Rise .

Also , it didn't help for me that they've failed to deliver the Lara they've been talking about in the promo and whom I was very excitedly anticipating (dark , villainous , morally-ambigiuos and finally becoming a TR) , dug into Lara's family even more than ever before , had a very uninteresting plot and lore which was a huge let-down after Rise's very effective buildup and cliffhanger , bloated hubs even more and filled them to the brim with annoying NPCs , abused walking segments , unbalanced combat etc .

And as everybody knows I've always loved Rise so it's not like I've suddenly discovered how good it was now that it's become the "old , previous" game , I know some people follow that tradition , but not me . Obviously , my opinion about games could change , but only in slight to moderate degrees , I've never abruptly loved a game I previously disliked or vise versa .

I even like Shadow , even if it's my least favorite in the trilogy that doesn't mean I hate it or think of it as a bad game . It's just that I've had so much hopes for it , probably a lot more than I should've had

[Vaskito]

Originally Posted by Patrick star

The thing is , Rise felt the best in terms of balance , and honestly , kind of blew TR2013 out of the water for me (except in the thrill feeling and memorability , in which TR2013 easily excels and tops the other two) .

This! I feel exactly the same! TR2013 was simply a memorable game with many of its iconic scenes, which ROTTR and SOTTR haven't been able to acomplish - but in defense of ROTTR and SOTTR, it could be due to how TR2013 was a novelty in that cinematic approach on the franchise, where ROTTR and SOTTR simply expand upon. Stuff is always more memorable when it's something new.

[LaraCroftSotTR]

Originally Posted by Patrick star

The thing is , Rise felt the best in terms of balance

Rise is a good game with some fun, experimental dlcs - but no.
It has too much action for my taste and the tombs are inferior to Shadow's tombs.
(TR1 had a human body-count of 5, TR2013 and Rise around 400+).
I however didn't complain about it openly - so don't blame Shadow's little action on me.
I even enjoyed the action in TR2013 - it surprisingly just became the one thing I've enjoyed the least in Rise.
(Less stealth-opportunites could be one reason for this.)
To me, Shadow is closer in terms of the right balance.
It just needed a few more animal encounters and reappearing enemies in sections where they were before.
Let's say, Shadow's main game needed 50 enemies more and Rise's main game needed 150 enemies less. Conclusion; Shadow is closer.

[NoahCrofRaider]

Originally Posted by LaraCroftSotTR

Shadow is getting more appreciation as I see it.
(Topic; Which one is your favourite from Reboot Trilogy? and also in the TR PSN Communities)
But review-wise Rise is above ALL TR games except TR1.

And much better tombs aren't a small thing.
You also have better underwater exploration, better settings (for most), a cool photomode, improved stealth-skills,
a better Story (the scenes alone are great - just the overall story isn't that great - yet still better than Rise),
we've got a nice glimpse of young Lara - it's more than just one or two things.

Where it lacks the most is simply combat, despite having all those skills.
And that's because of the complains about too much combat in the previous games.
They really only needed to nail the ending, add more combat and make Paititi a bit more relevant and/or smaller
and the game would have been a blast for most.

I wasn’t saying everyone was preferring Rise over Shadow, I was more getting at how some fans ask for this “real/true TR experience” and imo, that was Shadow, overall. But it’s seen as some lackluster piece of trash (at least that’s the impression I get by some on here), and I don’t think people see the good parts of it. They seem to just see empty promises and flaws. It’s really not that big of a deal, but seeing some of these people suddenly come out of the woodworks and not at least appreciate what Shadow was trying to do, is somewhat strange and a little aggravating in some ways because we don’t know what the devs’ response to this feedback will be. Rise 2.0? A whole new direction entirely?

The main, or most frequent, things I see people appreciate with Shadow is the swimming and occasionally the tombs. I wasn’t claiming tombs were a small thing, so please don’t put words in my mouth. If these were in Rise, Shadow might have nothing to hope for.

I totally get why people would feel disappointed with Shadow, and believe me when I say there are things I was disappointed with too. Unappreciation of what Shadow did do well is what really grinds my gears tbh. :/

[LaraCroftSotTR]

Originally Posted by NoahCrofRaider

I wasn’t claiming tombs were a small thing, so please don’t put words in my mouth.

You wrote;
there’s only a small thing or two that they liked more in Shadow...

And I responded with;
much better tombs aren't a small thing (...) - it's more than just one or two things.

My argument wasn't directed to you - but to those who claim it to be so.

[Rai]

Originally Posted by LaraCroftSotTR

<snip good post>

I agree with this. I'm a big fan of this trilogy (anyone familiar with my posts knows this) and feel that each game serves it's purpose, with Rise improving on TR'13 and likewise, Shadow improving on Rise. This improvements may seem minimal, but for me, they were enough to give a better overall modern TR experience. The story paths felt less linear and also sometimes more connected with the hub spaces and I fully appreciate the toned down combat. And I agree, there could have been more randomly placed animal encounters, to help emphasise the dangers of the jungle. This would have added to the combat ratio without adding to the human body count. Because I honestly feel that less humans is better. Shadow had its issues, but again, for me, the improvements more than make up for them. More so than it did for Rise.

[Patrick star]

The thing is : I don't think that Shadow's tombs are much better than Rise's like you do , they're only better , but like I've said above , not to the point of blowing Rise's tombs out of the water . Shadow's tombs , for instance , are still pretty far from TR4 level (the best game in the franchise for me). The improve in that aspect between Rise and Shadow is good , but not very vast , definitely not as vast as the difference between Rise and TR2013 . I might even proceed to say I liked Syria , Kitezh , The Flooded Archives more than say the cenote or the tomb in Cozumel for instance .

The only glaring difference in tombs between Rise and Shadow (aside from the architecture obviously) is the theme and tone , while Rise went for peaceful serene atmosphere , Shadow pursued the scary one . I liked both approaches but the ideal scenario would be a mixture of both .

[Soma Holiday]

I guarantee if Shadow had a better story and a more fitting ending no one would complain about it. If she'd torn her pants and had to chop of her hair in a trap in Paititi and then ended up at the vatican taking out the trinity high council with the bun from TR1 everyone would have loved the game.

The story was all so meh. So the game became meh.

[Patrick star]

Originally Posted by Soma Holiday

I guarantee if Shadow had a better story and a more fitting ending no one would complain about it..

I'd still complain about the samey overcrowded hubs and the Paititi overload , but yeah , it would really be a much better experience .


Oh , I just noticed that "better story and more fitting ending" perhaps means by extension deleting Paititi altogether , thus altering/changing the second half of the game entirely , to the better of course .