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Old 17-01-22, 04:55   #4221
Quebsenuef
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I think both TRA and TReboot have good ideas of “first kill” and the effects of it, but it’s still poorly executed both times. TRA is far too much forced emotion while TReboot immediately throws hundreds of Mercs at Lara and it just makes the whole scene fly away at lightning speed.

You can do a “first kill” of a character and show the effects it has, just neither of these ways.
Granted, it’s hard to get a gamer to give a damn about a first kill anyway because most games have been killing things since they can remember. Whether it’s stomping on mushroom guys as Mario or shooting terrorists in COD. It’s hard to make a scene impactful in the sense of “care about how this negatively affects the character” when plays don’t typically have to give a crap about fictional violence to begin with.
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Old 17-01-22, 07:42   #4222
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True but it was a kill or be killed situation. I don't know what people expect?
They could have put her in a different situation for her first kill. Have it more isolated like the movie. Then straight after have the gameplay be just platforming, puzzles, exploration etc... whilst Lara deals with what's happened. Then once she's accepted it, then come more human enemies.
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Old 17-01-22, 08:44   #4223
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True but it was a kill or be killed situation. I don't know what people expect? Did you guys want her to cry and shout "SORRY I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS" everytime she killed someone who was actively out to murder her?
How about not making the game this villain infested? Idea of Dragon's Triangle was challenging survival test enough until they decided to ruin it with action oriented gameplay. Making wild animals and severe weather conditions main obstacles could've made more sense in that situation. It took the tomb raidering out of context because homegirl was either fighting for her life or trying found her [yet another annoying] friend. Game was senselessly brutal, it's stupid.
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Old 17-01-22, 12:19   #4224
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How about not making the game this villain infested? Idea of Dragon's Triangle was challenging survival test enough until they decided to ruin it with action oriented gameplay. Making wild animals and severe weather conditions main obstacles could've made more sense in that situation. It took the tomb raidering out of context because homegirl was either fighting for her life or trying found her [yet another annoying] friend. Game was senselessly brutal, it's stupid.
With no villains, there is no struggle. Without struggle, the player would feel unchallenged. The context of a game is the pretend of a challenge, even if there isn't one. (Popular "revisioned" opinion of Today).

Some areas are just trying too hard, squeezing out quality, rather than to pose the pretend of a challenge that is overshadowed by that quality.

This is not the age of Today, because Today is in the light of what sort of hardware is required to run such quality. It quickly became clear that areas don't have to look like quality to pose the challenge of a "game". Which became to deliver, but not to play.

A missed opportunity, for the talented. So arstically not justifying the means to their ends. But here you're at the right place. Right at Lara Croft's doorstep. As Tomb Raider. What are we good for?
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Old 17-01-22, 13:44   #4225
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I think that the reboot was fine the way it was. And both of her first kills were handled fine. One was a bit too dramatic and the other was a bit undermined with the mass killings. But I feel that people are overthinking it.
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Old 17-01-22, 14:00   #4226
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True but it was a kill or be killed situation. I don't know what people expect? Did you guys want her to cry and shout "SORRY I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS" everytime she killed someone who was actively out to murder her?
I'll just echo the comments from Quebsenuef, janissary and Tombraider95- spacing out the enemies a bit more, particularly in the early game, would probably have helped. But the devs wanted a cover-based shooter, not a puzzle-exploration game. Because marketing, and cowardice.

Alternatively, if the designers really really insisted on Lara going rambo ASAP, then they should have imposed a narrative structure and character development where Lara is already a seasoned killer. Which entails either not doing an origin story, or... I don't know... making her a natural psychopath who was always secretly itching for the excuse and practiced with guns from age 9. Basically the edgiest version of classic Lara.
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Old 17-01-22, 14:40   #4227
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With no villains, there is no struggle. Without struggle, the player would feel unchallenged. The context of a game is the pretend of a challenge, even if there isn't one.
You see, I disagree. You can still make a challenging game without villain. And I think this what Tomb Raider needs at this point. Look, we are hashing over Lara's radio companions, saying that it kills the sense of isolation. But no one talks about how when you unlock a hard to reach location and there's tons of mercenaries popping out of it: Maria Doria for example. You can excuse classics since there's no other options to attract the gamers, but in 2022 you don't need this at all. Take Anniverary Wii for example. Just send Lara underneath the face of the Earth and make her collect artifacts, solve puzzles and do rubbings. And when there's going to be a fight, make it like Tomb Raider 1– with wild animals and mummies.

Endurance crashes on isolated island and you're killing multiple army of men. Really? Is it what tomb raider is?

Last edited by janissary; 17-01-22 at 15:20. Reason: Use "hash out" in a sentence. Janissary style.
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Old 17-01-22, 14:54   #4228
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I'm not sure if this should go over in the memes thread, but since biscuit mentioned Rihanna's writing from the comics-



I mean... this sums it up, basically. She's not an bad character in isolation- The Beginning is pretty inoffensive, and I don't actively hate Sam or Jonah- but she doesn't fit the gameplay, and she's a terrible iteration on prior versions of Lara.

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Originally Posted by janissary View Post
You see, I disagree. You can still make a challenging game without villain. And I think this what Tomb Raider needs at this point. Look, we are hashing about Lara's radio companions, saying that it kills the sense of isolation. But no one talks about how when you unlock a hard to reach location and there's tons of mercenaries popping out of it: Maria Doria for example. You can excuse classics since there's no other options to attract the gamers, but in 2022 you don't need this at all. Take Anniverary Wii for example. Just send Lara underneath the face of the Earth and make her collect artifacts, solve puzzles and do rubbings. And when there's going to be a fight, make it like Tomb Raider 1– with wild animals and mummies.
You make a good point about human adversaries crawling out of the woodwork in remote locations. It kinda does undermine the sense of creeping isolation that the series is ostensibly known for. Games are built on challenge, but not every challenge needs to be a firefight.

I don't think the classics had no other route to go, though- as you point out, TR1 did fine with non-human adversaries and considerably less combat in general. Combat was really the weakest element of the 90s titles in any case, so I don't really get why so many fans seem to define Lara in terms of enthusiasm for violence.

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Old 17-01-22, 15:42   #4229
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LOOOOOOL I love her expression in the first panel. This should definitely go to the meme thread!

That wasn't Rhianna writing though. The first arc was written by Gail Simone. Rhianna stepped in to co-write in the 7th issue I think.
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Old 17-01-22, 16:24   #4230
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LOOOOOOL I love her expression in the first panel. This should definitely go to the meme thread!

That wasn't Rhianna writing though. The first arc was written by Gail Simone. Rhianna stepped in to co-write in the 7th issue I think.
I particularly love the limp-wristed, effeminate gesturing. "Theft! Killing! I think I may faint! Fetch me my smelling salts!" I mean, I know I've been pretty rough on classic Lara and her kleptomanic mary-sue habits- it's not that none of the criticisms of the core-era games were valid- but there should be some kind of middle ground here.

I'll check out issue 7, but... I've sampled bits and pieces at random from about a dozen issues now and it hasn't grabbed me so far.
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