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Old 19-11-19, 23:19   #51
Nigel Cassidy
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Originally Posted by _Seth View Post
How was classic Lara ever sexualised? Much less oversexualised.
Of course not, but to Crystal D she might be. Or rather, Crystal D might want to placate the fools to whom she is oversexualized.

To some people even Alita from Alita Battle Angel is oversexualized. She's a robot girl who doesn't actually have any flesh, but still. And I'm not making this up...
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Old 20-11-19, 01:21   #52
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Crystal are so into their current vision that I can't see it happening. I am also not convinced they have enough love for the source material to get it right. From CD's perspective there may be a worry that it dilutes their reboot branding. For these reasons I believe they won't do it.

I think it would be a great idea as the locations would be fantastic in modern graphics. They are so atmospheric and the game has such a clever storyline especially with the dagger's unique ability. As for if Crystal should do it, if a team comes in and goes first no shorts, second let's change some levels to hubs it's not going to work out well. Whoever does it, for best results a team separate from the reboot team would be better. I do think there is potential though and a TR2 remake could be one of the best TR's to date.
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Old 20-11-19, 10:49   #53
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When was she ever oversexualized?

Are people nowadays really that perverted that they think creating a character who has a pretty face, wears shorts and has big boobs is sexualizing that character???

A lot of people wear shorts in summer and a lot of people are born with a body and face like Laras. It's not a bad thing!
BOY do people on this forum like to twist other members words and play dumb when they don't like what they read.

I said THE IMAGE OF THE CLASSICS isn't intact, not the games themselves. Main theme used for promoting classics isn't exploring, tomb raiding, certainly not Lara's personality traits - it's SEX (you know, visuals featuring Lara's almost naked body in provocative poses and spoken lines that are mainly in a flirting tone with the male audience) and in those markeitng campaigns LC was OVERsexualized (yes, OVER) and you can ignore that as much as you want in order to keep the classic in such a high regard. The truth is, that era of TR is problematic as ****, especially nowadays with all the SJW bull****. That is one of the reasons you won't see them remaking them, at least not faithfully... But feel free to keep you heads in the sand, it's what TRF is known for at this point

EDIT: Aerie, just wanted to be clear: this is not a reply only to you, I just took your post out of many others, I am referring to everyone who blindly defends the classsics and many of them also blindly attack reboot games. I love TR as a whole but I see flaws in all 3 eras. Here on TRF though classics are constantly being put on golden pedestal to be worshipped like the perfect TR era when - as a whole - it's far from that.
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Old 20-11-19, 12:21   #54
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A lot of people seem to genuinely not get why Lara is often considered sexualised.

Well, no, a woman wearing shorts and having big breasts is not sexualisation as far as a real-life person is concerned, but Lara is not an actual human being. She was designed to look that way and despite Toby claiming the big boobs were an accident (sure honey) it's clear that Lara was designed by males (yeah there was one woman in the original team but that's not the issue here) with a male audience in mind and promoted for a male audience in mind, especially in the 90s with those bikini pics and revealing dresses and topless pics of her on a bed with a pillow covering her boobs. The promotional materials could possibly be attributed to Eidos' marketing strategy and not Core's plan necessarily. Though Lara's boobs kept growing bigger and bigger all of a sudden and we also got a lot of cleavage in Last Revelation and Chronicles on her main outfit out of the blue while she still has none to show on the covers of said games. They also have a scene in Chronicles were Lara, who is supposed to be sixteen at the time almost gets topless... This of course carried over in the LAU era... Japan's dress, bikini DLC, jiggle physics etc.

Now, at the same time, Lara was never nearly as sexualised as, let's say, the entire cast of Dead or Alive, or Bayonetta, or Ivy from SoulCalibur.

To me personally, it's not a deal breaker, I never minded Lara's ridiculous proportions or the cheesy pics because sexy females don't have any effect on me. In fact I actually love the sexy outfits BUT at the same time I can see why mainstream media would be against such a depiction of a female character. Again, Lara was never just a virtual sex doll and she shouldn't be reduced to just that. Was she sexualised? Yes. Should that get in the way of someone enjoying any of the first nine games? No, because despite the examples I brought up Lara's sex appeal is never the focus of the games or Lara's character.

It's not about having big boobs and wearing shorts, it's the whole thought process behind these choices and how these were marketed.
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Old 20-11-19, 12:32   #55
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it's clear that Lara was designed by males (yeah there was one woman in the original team but that's not the issue here) with a male audience in mind and promoted for a male audience in mind
Not only it's pretty clear, but there's actual evidence of that, in the Lara Cruz's original drafts:



I personally don't think it's a bad thing - I mostly have no issues with it, beyond the fact that this kinda makes it harder for Lara to be taken seriously, beyond her sex appeal, by the gp.

I do think it's pretty dumb to act this is taken out of context though, or to blame it all on the marketing team when this shows it wasn't the case.

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To me personally, it's not a deal breaker, I never minded Lara's ridiculous proportions or the cheesy pics because sexy females don't have any effect on me. In fact I actually love the sexy outfits BUT at the same time I can see why mainstream media would be against such a depiction of a female character. Again, Lara was never just a virtual sex doll and she shouldn't be reduced to just that. Was she sexualised? Yes. Should that get in the way of someone enjoying any of the first nine games? No, because despite the examples I brought up Lara's sex appeal is never the focus of the games or Lara's character.

It's not about having big boobs and wearing shorts, it's the whole thought process behind these choices and how these were marketed.
PERFECTLY said!
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Old 20-11-19, 12:40   #56
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Yes, Lara was pretty/sexy, get over it. I don't know why this is such a big deal. Most media characters are made to look pretty and many are made to look sexy, like men with big muscles wearing tight clothes. Some are made to be the epithomen of that, which is what classic Lara was. And yet, she had strong traits in the games and was a strong female character, her sexyness doesn't diminish that, and she's only "just a sex doll" to those that haven't played the games or are so shortsighted as to only see sex in her when there's so much more. NOt only that, but if/when they remake the classics, everyone will know that they will reflect the era they were made in, it would be dumb to expect them to not be at least a bit dated theme-wise.

I think there is space for everyone, modest female characters and the ones like classic Lara. I think it's prejudice that only one type of female character is accepted, as if women could only be one way and thus can't be represented any other way.
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Old 20-11-19, 14:51   #57
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Originally Posted by XXIIXX View Post
A lot of people seem to genuinely not get why Lara is often considered sexualised.

Well, no, a woman wearing shorts and having big breasts is not sexualisation as far as a real-life person is concerned, but Lara is not an actual human being. She was designed to look that way and despite Toby claiming the big boobs were an accident (sure honey) it's clear that Lara was designed by males (yeah there was one woman in the original team but that's not the issue here) with a male audience in mind and promoted for a male audience in mind, especially in the 90s with those bikini pics and revealing dresses and topless pics of her on a bed with a pillow covering her boobs. The promotional materials could possibly be attributed to Eidos' marketing strategy and not Core's plan necessarily. Though Lara's boobs kept growing bigger and bigger all of a sudden and we also got a lot of cleavage in Last Revelation and Chronicles on her main outfit out of the blue while she still has none to show on the covers of said games. They also have a scene in Chronicles were Lara, who is supposed to be sixteen at the time almost gets topless... This of course carried over in the LAU era... Japan's dress, bikini DLC, jiggle physics etc.

Now, at the same time, Lara was never nearly as sexualised as, let's say, the entire cast of Dead or Alive, or Bayonetta, or Ivy from SoulCalibur.

To me personally, it's not a deal breaker, I never minded Lara's ridiculous proportions or the cheesy pics because sexy females don't have any effect on me. In fact I actually love the sexy outfits BUT at the same time I can see why mainstream media would be against such a depiction of a female character. Again, Lara was never just a virtual sex doll and she shouldn't be reduced to just that. Was she sexualised? Yes. Should that get in the way of someone enjoying any of the first nine games? No, because despite the examples I brought up Lara's sex appeal is never the focus of the games or Lara's character.

It's not about having big boobs and wearing shorts, it's the whole thought process behind these choices and how these were marketed.
Thank you, this is exactly what I think basically word to word. Love the old games but it's not so hard to understand the problems (today especially) behind LC being presented as a sexual fantasy despite the games having no sexual content in them whatsoever. A lot of trf members like to pretend that this type of marketing isn't at all part of classic TR era when it actually is. This is why saying anything remotely negative about the classics is becoming a taboo around here but hey when you like the newer games you get attacked left and right, bc that is becoming taboo as well.

Truth is, TR as a whole is a very flawed brand because studios behind it always saw making money off of it as a priority (developers too). They still do. I enjoy the reboot games A LOT but they are only second place in the genre adding nothing new to the table, only using Uncharted and TLOU trends that are proven to work but when it comes to artistic side (building characters, storytelling, inventive gameplay and level designs) they don't deliver the same quality as those games even though they are good imo. Just not the best. TR never was.
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Old 20-11-19, 15:03   #58
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Originally Posted by paulojr_mam View Post
Yes, Lara was pretty/sexy, get over it. I don't know why this is such a big deal. Most media characters are made to look pretty and many are made to look sexy, like men with big muscles wearing tight clothes. Some are made to be the epithomen of that, which is what classic Lara was. And yet, she had strong traits in the games and was a strong female character, her sexyness doesn't diminish that, and she's only "just a sex doll" to those that haven't played the games or are so shortsighted as to only see sex in her when there's so much more. NOt only that, but if/when they remake the classics, everyone will know that they will reflect the era they were made in, it would be dumb to expect them to not be at least a bit dated theme-wise.

I think there is space for everyone, modest female characters and the ones like classic Lara. I think it's prejudice that only one type of female character is accepted, as if women could only be one way and thus can't be represented any other way.
Exactly we have regressed as a society where women are only allowed and accepted one way and one way only. It's riddiculess.
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Old 20-11-19, 15:06   #59
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Originally Posted by paulojr_mam View Post
Yes, Lara was pretty/sexy, get over it. I don't know why this is such a big deal. Most media characters are made to look pretty and many are made to look sexy, like men with big muscles wearing tight clothes. Some are made to be the epithomen of that, which is what classic Lara was. And yet, she had strong traits in the games and was a strong female character, her sexyness doesn't diminish that, and she's only "just a sex doll" to those that haven't played the games or are so shortsighted as to only see sex in her when there's so much more. NOt only that, but if/when they remake the classics, everyone will know that they will reflect the era they were made in, it would be dumb to expect them to not be at least a bit dated theme-wise.

I think there is space for everyone, modest female characters and the ones like classic Lara. I think it's prejudice that only one type of female character is accepted, as if women could only be one way and thus can't be represented any other way.
This is all true but I'm afraid it will fall on deaf ears as usual.
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Old 20-11-19, 16:51   #60
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To me personally, it's not a deal breaker, I never minded Lara's ridiculous proportions or the cheesy pics because sexy females don't have any effect on me. In fact I actually love the sexy outfits BUT at the same time I can see why mainstream media would be against such a depiction of a female character. Again, Lara was never just a virtual sex doll and she shouldn't be reduced to just that. Was she sexualised? Yes. Should that get in the way of someone enjoying any of the first nine games? No, because despite the examples I brought up Lara's sex appeal is never the focus of the games or Lara's character.

It's not about having big boobs and wearing shorts, it's the whole thought process behind these choices and how these were marketed.
I agree. The sad thing is, whenever someone points this out, members of the board always take it to mean "People are against a sexy Lara." Like no, lol, you can be fine with Lara being sexualised, but still point out how the marketing was questionable. I don't think I've ever seen anyone on the boards claim that she was only a sex doll.
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