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Old 15-05-20, 14:49   #51
paulojr_mam
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The engine was much improved for TR3 than it was for TR2. Also the two games are very different. Saying TR3 is an expansion of TR2 is crazy.
I agree. I understand why TR2 is seen as more evolution from TR1 than TR3 from TR2, though. TR2 added vehicles, which have entirely different gameplay from TR1. Some could argue it also added urban locations, but those are merely cosmetic changes. TR3, though, added a lot of gameplay elements to the core gameplay. Unlike TR2. They couldn't keep adding foreign, strange gameplay concepts to the TR formula, they needed to solidify TR. That is what TR3 is, it made huuuuuge improvements and amplifications to the core gameplay whilst not changing it. It wasn't yet the time to change that, with only three games. Even more so because they had already added this huge new thing in TR2. If they kept adding, it would lose identity (which it did decades later) and the core gameplay would have been buried underneath unnecessary additions (like AoD did).
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Old 20-05-20, 14:25   #52
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I think that the only way in which it would be possible to complete Madubu Gorge without the Kayak is if you use the level skip cheat.
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Old 27-05-20, 15:21   #53
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You shouldn't launch a game every year, because obviously the creativity will be affected in the process.

The biggest problem with Tomb Raider 3 is the design itself. Almost all levels are a mess. Yes, some of them are beautiful, the graphics are better, there are great new moves, vehicles, weapons, etc.

But can anyone explain what the hell is Aldwych or Lud's Gate? Yes, an abandoned station, I know, but the design itself is a mess. Why would anyone build a place like that? Which purpose had? Why the buildings on Thames Wharf or City levels are so useless and weird? No one could live in a place like that and it doesn't look like London at all. London should have been like France on Tomb Raider: The Lost Artifact. Those levels were amazing.

Tomb Raider I and II combined perfectly the ambience with puzzles and exploration.

I think Tomb Raider III should have been shorter, a little easier, with a better level design and should begin to build a story for Lara like they did on TR IV.
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Old 27-05-20, 16:24   #54
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^I think the problem is not that "TR3's levels are a mess", they certainly aren't, at least not any more than the previous games. It's just that TR1's gameplay design works really well in tombs that are supposed to be enigmatic, old and exotic. It doesn't work in places that are supposed to be urban locations that we all know. TRII already had that problem, although it's bigger in TR3. I agree that, if the devs had more time, they should be more careful with their urban design, not just copy-paste tomb design for modern locations. Modern urban locations should be more realistic IMO.
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Old 27-05-20, 18:14   #55
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^ I think that's actually the reason why TR3 level design is a mess. TR1 maybe was chaotic, but it worked since the levels were generally smaller and they had a clear outline of 2/3 bigger areas and smaller rooms attached to them. TR2 just expanded on that. TR3 though made the levels even bigger, but (in my opinion) less divided into areas. Everything was connected to everything in the weirdest ways possible and the puzzles weren't really clear in design either. TR4 addressed that issue though.
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Old 27-05-20, 18:41   #56
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^It seems, then, to be a matter of personal taste. I like TR3's level design phylosophy but find TR4's to be inferior.
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Old 27-05-20, 18:55   #57
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But can anyone explain what the hell is Aldwych or Lud's Gate? Yes, an abandoned station, I know, but the design itself is a mess. Why would anyone build a place like that? Which purpose had? Why the buildings on Thames Wharf or City levels are so useless and weird?
I can understand what you mean in the case of Thames Wharf and City, but I don't see your point as regards Aldwych. What is so strange in it? Of course, there are some weird parts of the level, but as a whole I think it makes sense. There is also one thing to remember: it is a video game and thus it contains some simplifications and aspects that won't correspond to the real world.
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Old 05-06-20, 11:08   #58
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The idea of Thames Wharf is that the area consists of old Victorian era warehouses. During WW2 a lot of those were destroyed leaving just shells behind. I think that is what they were going for in regards design and look.

The cistern areas are not too fanciful either. I'm sure there are aquifers beneath London which it should not be forgotten has large, complex, city wide subterranean levels. Generations have been digging down or building over old structures and even burying whole rivers. Ever heard of the River Fleet (Fleet Street) a tributary of the Thames and now effectively a sewer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Fleet

note the end of the first paragraph.

Who knows what's down there? Core just speculated and used their imagination.

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Old 05-06-20, 16:25   #59
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The idea of Thames Wharf is that the area consists of old Victorian era warehouses. During WW2 a lot of those where destroyed leaving just shells behind. I think that is what they were going for in regards design and look.

The cistern areas are not too fanciful either. I'm sure there are aquifers beneath London which it should not be forgotten has large, complex, city wide subterranean levels. Generations have been digging down or building over old structures and even burying whole rivers. Ever heard of the River Fleet (Fleet Street) a tributary of the Thames and now effectively a sewer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Fleet

note the end of the first paragraph.

Who knows what's down there? Core just speculated and used their imagination.
Very interesting. That would explain why Lara goes down deeper and deeper in that area.

Maybe the problem is that the areas are a little disjointed. I mean, there's no introduction at the beginning of each area. For example, we know that Lara is on Nevada, but we don't know why she is in the desert and what place is looking for. Later we discover that the Area 51 is hidden nearby, but it could had been any other place.

The Angel of Darkness solved this with the diary. And TR1, 2, 4 and 5 solved that problem with cutscenes and FMV sequences. Even TR2Gold solved the problem with a map and info at the title screen.

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Old 06-06-20, 01:35   #60
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I've said this before here that the more obvious and sensible start point for Thames Wharf is actually the secret area down at ground level on the right. You can see and I think also hear the river (Thames) below.

A trip up the Thames by boat or jet ski (why not?) from Greenwich with Willard perhaps explaining in voice over where the London artifact is located would have set the scene very nicely.

There could also be an explanation worked in for why LC doesn't just go straight to City along the lines of Sophia used her mutant rejects to break into the British Museum from below and steal it for her. LC is only told this only after she's obtained the embalming fluid for the mutants. She's going there anyway because she thinks that is where artifact is located - that would give the visit to the museum more purpose.

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