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Old 19-02-20, 21:10   #201
Athukraz
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I think the art direction of TR2013 and Rise is jaw-dropping . I don't give a damn about colors that people around here worship so much , if the location looks and feels convincing and immersive to me thanks to its suitable and plausible color palette , then the art of that location is just on point . Mountain village during the rain , the windy monastery , The Prophet's tomb vistas , Kitezh , Flooded Archives and many other locations from those two games are some of the most beautiful locations out of the entire franchise for me , all of that is thanks to Brian Horton's brilliant art direction and the hard work he put into bringing all these locations to life , that's real art I hope he'll come back to the franchise at some point , I miss his art and particularly his impeccable renders so much .
This this this
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Old 19-02-20, 21:16   #202
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I think the art direction of TR2013 and Rise is jaw-dropping . I don't give a damn about colors that people around here worship so much , if the location looks and feels convincing and immersive to me thanks to its suitable and plausible color palette , then the art of that location is just on point . Mountain village during the rain , the windy monastery , The Prophet's tomb vistas , Kitezh , Flooded Archives and many other locations from those two games are some of the most beautiful locations out of the entire franchise for me , all of that is thanks to Brian Horton's brilliant art direction and the hard work he put into bringing all these locations to life , that's real art I hope he'll come back to the franchise at some point , I miss his art and particularly his impeccable renders so much .
They didn't feel real to me at all personally.


Why yes, totally fuel is stored on an seemingly impassable route on a japanese island only reachable by zip-line from a Radio tower, with no easy way to move the fuel out of the tanks into anything that would require it.

Why yes, there are totally huts just down a slide from there built into the side of the mountain that seemingly have no way to get across outside of acrobatics and they also would totally start collapsing for no reason when one British person enters them, it totatly does not feel like an incredibly contrived video-game level at all.

Also totally the island is "Lost" when The Japanese built fortifications and it and the US army apparently waged war on it in at least one battle., Seriously if two countries know how to get there, how is it lost?, its not like the US army and Japan have any reason to cover it up anyway, it ain't exactly lost if they could build a freaking Radio Tower with contact to the outside world, granted I'm no builder but I'm pretty sure all those bunkers and the Radio Tower weren't exactly built in 2 weeks with a bunch of supplies from a few ships, even assuming somehow them getting shipwrecked resulted in losing no construction supplies whatso ever.
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Old 19-02-20, 21:20   #203
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They didn't feel real to me at all personally.
They arenít meant to be real. Itís a game.

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Why yes, there are totally huts just down a slide from there built into the side of the mountain that seemingly have no way to get across outside of acrobatics and they also would totally start collapsing for no reason when one British person enters them.
You can say the same thing for the Classics.

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Also totally the island is "Lost" when The Japanese built fortifications and it and the US army apparently waged war on it in at least one battle.
Well, the lost island Atlantis could be reached easily via boat in a sleeping time.
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Old 19-02-20, 21:26   #204
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They aren’t meant to be real. It’s a game.


You can say the same thing for the Classics.


Well, the lost island Atlantis could be reached easily via boat in a sleeping time.
At least Atlantis is just some random island seemingly, nothing really draws too much attention, meanwhile an actual battle was waged on Yamati, which means a bunch of troops knew they were going there, the non-combat crew of their ships knew they were going there, higher ups knew about it and I'm sure some people equipping the ship/fueling it might have overheard about it, then double it for the Japanese doing the exact same thing, the Island is not lost, two countries know roughly where it is, this is not levels being designed for gameplay, this is an active plot-hole in your narrative in that the "lost" Island is not lost and has no reason to be considered lost, Atlantis was not already discovered by two countries before the game started, Yamati was.



Classics at least tended to justifiy things occasioanlly , why does Lara take the rapids in TR3? because the bridge is destroyed to the temple and those games also don't ask me to take their plots seriously outside of Chronicles/AOD, so I increase my standards when the game starts actively restricting my gameplay for it's story and when you try very hard to be "Realistic" and "Serious", I again, elevate my standards.
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Old 19-02-20, 21:29   #205
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They didn't feel real to me at all personally.

Why yes, totally fuel is stored on an seemingly impassable route on a japanese island only reachable by zip-line from a Radio tower, with no easy way to move the fuel out of the tanks into anything that would require it.

Why yes, there are totally huts just down a slide from there built into the side of the mountain that seemingly have no way to get across outside of acrobatics and they also would totally start collapsing for no reason when one British person enters them, it totatly does not feel like an incredibly contrived video-game level at all.
This is so very contrived and irrelevant . I was talking about the visuals , atmosphere and feel of the locations , and okay I get it you prioritize gameplay and design over literally everything else but then don't shoehorn them into a discussion to which they don't belong for the sake of pushing a narrative .
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Old 19-02-20, 21:38   #206
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This is so very contrived and irrelevant . I was talking about the visuals , atmosphere and feel of the locations , and okay I get it you prioritize gameplay and design over literally everything else but then don't shoehorn them into a discussion to which they don't belong for the sake of pushing a narrative .
To be, Atmosphere IS the gameplay.

AOD's Bio-Research facility, while a bit contrived, feels real in the extent of "more exists than just the game areas", we have jammed doors Lara can't open to areas we never see and you have the entire 3-doors exit of the level, Lara even swims where they'd dump seemingly failed experiments to get around a broken door early on, we're taking contrived routes because the "normal" way through the facility is non-functional. which is how you'd want to do things if you're trying to get me invested seriously and if you want to be realistic.

Meanwhile fuel is just stored on a hill with no easy way to transport it to the radio station next to it if I remember, no broken ladders or anything to justifiy it, there's a fence blocking the way to the radio tower and the only other route is a long slide down to a massive drop from the cliffs, we take a contrived route because the game designers didn't want to actually have Lara take time to travel to the fuel because we have ADHD apparently and need to be entertained by explosions and plane crashing, we take a contrived route because a logical one does not exist, what did the Japanese send fuel tanks to the fuel dump via the cable? then did one poor person have to climb the cable up the radio tower while carrying a fuel can?

And to bring up a non-TR example, the fan-remake of Half life 1, Black Mesa, frequently has locked doors when Gordon has to take a contrived route, you get the sense that the place is real but Gordon has to take these gamey detours because he's unfortunately not found the keys to those doors, the people who work here do not normally climb through elevator shafts/get propelled by fans through vents to get to their workplace but Gordon has to due to most of the automated security doors being broken and not having the keys to the regular doors, we take a contrived route because the "Normal" route is blocked or broken.

Guess what? visually, it looks stupid, realistically, it looks stupid,feel? It feels like I'm in a location where the devs just gave up when I'm supposed to care about what's going on, all they had to do was just make a route that was a convient path to the radio tower or at least off a hill where someone could transport fuel, then block it off somehow, rubble, a bridge that's collapsed or at least something.

Level design matters for atmosphere because I can't really seriously get invested if the level design makes me feel like I'm a location, thats one of the reasons Duke 3D, Shadow Warrior and Blood managed to be impressive back in the day, you had an entire theater, with bathrooms and such in the first level of Duke 3D, if it was a location in Rise/2013, the main theater area would exist and a single line through out main exit, with none of those small extra areas (such as an Arcade or a storeroom near the ticket area.) that help the location feel alive.

And again, when I'm not supposed to take your game seriously,I care less, when I do, I care more.
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Old 19-02-20, 21:49   #207
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This is the thing I dislike about you. How did you come from the reboots’ art direction to AoD’s Bio-Research facility? And please for God’s sake, stop mentioning random games like Shadow Warrior and Blood.

The fuel tanks thing. Again, it’s a video game. How did chocolate bars get into sewers and onto rooftops? How can the Colosseum from TR1 be outside while you literally descend down the St. Francis Folly in the previous level? Why are levers tucked away into secret areas 100km away? How can Lara shoot accurately whilst acrobating her way around? Why is there a jump-switch near Jean-Yves’ balcony? I could go on... But it doesn’t matter. These don’t mean anything to me. I love games because they’re creative and imaginary.

TR2013 had great level design.
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Old 19-02-20, 21:57   #208
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How can the Colosseum from TR1 be outside while you literally descend down the St. Francis Folly in the previous level?
But the colosseum isn't outside. Or are you specifically referring to Anniversary?
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Why are levers tucked away into secret areas 100km away?
You're not supposed to understand those places, they're in ruins and they were made by exotic ancient civilizations.
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How can Lara shoot accurately whilst acrobating her way around?
Because she's awesome. It's called skills.
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TR2013 had great level design.
Not in the gameplay department, not in how it looks.
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Old 19-02-20, 21:59   #209
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^
This is the thing I dislike about you. How did you come from the reboots’ art direction to AoD’s Bio-Research facility? And please for God’s sake, stop mentioning random games like Shadow Warrior and Blood.

The fuel tanks thing. Again, it’s a video game. How did chocolate bars get into sewers and onto rooftops? How can the Colosseum from TR1 be outside while you literally descend down the St. Francis Folly in the previous level? Why are levers tucked away into secret areas 100km away? How can Lara shoot accurately whilst acrobating her way around? Why is there a jump-switch near Jean-Yves’ balcony? I could go on... But it doesn’t matter. These don’t mean anything to me. I love games because they’re creative and imaginary.

TR2013 had great level design.
Because I'm not supposed to take Tomb Raider 1 seriously and I'm supposed to take 2013 seriously?

Because level design is Art Direction, when I have a location that is an obivous straight line with no logical way that location could function, it's silly and when the game is supposed to be all "Gritty" and "Realistic" I hold it against it.

Duke 3D had more realistic and better Art Direction, because you had all those little side-rooms that made the location feel alive rather than going into a completely tiny building that's literally a straight line.

AOD/Black Mesa disguised the fact somewhat you were taking a very video-gamey route by basically going "Here's the normal quick way, the automated door is broken, go climb through a vent in a roundabout way.", you don't question it because these aren't the routes normal people would seemingly have to take.

2013 is just "here's a completely stupid looking spot because we have to advance the plot quickly and can't think of anything." and I guess the Japanese are just masters of climbing ropes while holding onto fuel cans.

I bring them up because they provide more life-like locations despite the graphics barrier, because the level design makes up for it.
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Old 19-02-20, 22:11   #210
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But the colosseum isn't outside. Or are you specifically referring to Anniversary?
Those black skies you see in The Lost Valley and the Colosseum are all because of time restraints. The devs couldn’t develop a proper skybox until TR2. So yes, it is outside. The Gold team even goes further and adds stars in Return to Egypt.

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You're not supposed to understand those places, they're in ruins and they were made by exotic ancient civilizations.
But I want to understand them. That’s what stories are for.
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Because she's awesome. It's called skills.
Dodging bullets and rockets while explosions are happening around is a skill too, then.

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Not in the gameplay department, not in how it looks.
We’ll have to agree to disagree.
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