Question about the Maria Doria - Page 3

Anakzunamuhn · 03-07-17, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanglyph

That's so kind, thank you very much!

There will indeed be an episode for each of the games. It may take a decade but we'll get there.

I'm waiting for TRIII H&G to come out! It's my fav game of the series and there's a lot of crazy things that needs to be properly investigated.

Your work is awesome!

LaraSpears · 03-07-17, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Chi

He he, here I am, and this is one of my favorite questions which many newer or puzzled Tomb Raider fans like to ask about.

This subject has been talked about in the past many times on here by curious fans wanting to know why the original designers made levels like this.

And in this particular level why the ship ended up on the seabed in a most unusual and impossible position.

I like many others scratched their heads about the ship layout, and I ended up making a 3D diagram of the ship.

Conclusion: was that the designers wanted to make the level more interesting with difficult game play, compared to a normal sunken ship.

My picture....

Has anyone ever told you how much of a GODSEND you are?

You're a walking wikipedia of TR facts and that alone makes you one of the most interesting people I've ever had the pleasure of reading their posts, I love your thoroughly detailed posts and your pictures that make us understand it even more, you sure know how to get the point across!

Thank you for being you!

Zreen001 · 04-07-17, 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaraSpears

Has anyone ever told you how much of a GODSEND you are?

You're a walking wikipedia of TR facts and that alone makes you one of the most interesting people I've ever had the pleasure of reading their posts, I love your thoroughly detailed posts and your pictures that make us understand it even more, you sure know how to get the point across!

Thank you for being you!

I'm still convinced Chi is actually Andy Sandham, hanging around the forums disguising his real intent: and when I know what it is I'll tell you.

The Great Chi · 04-07-17, 10:12

Sorry, wrong guess as I am not an English man

I am an Enigma, a mystery and so inscrutable, I do not know who I am either.

Anyway this thread is not about me, so lets get back on topic

It is about a total wreck........... oh, we are talking about me

Fantasy Fan · 04-07-17, 12:48

Oh, Chi, you're not a wreck and you know it!

And always remain an enigma!

But okay, we'll get back on topic.

Anakzunamuhn · 04-07-17, 13:09

It's the first time I've seen an explanatory image of the Inscrutable One. I'm feeling like I've missed lots of useful info.

rob032 · 09-07-17, 15:49

It's a strange setup, but Core had to come up with something to make the area difficult to explore because:

On a normal shipwreck Lara and Marco could simply turn up and retrieve the Seraph - there would be no need to explore the whole ship and it would defeat the point of the game.

A passing diver or submarine might have found the Seraph in the meantime.

With a bit of imagination it's not that hard to imagine the ship breaking up and falling into the cavern - we know Brother Barkhang's father 'bombed' the ship, if he targeted structural weak points it's feasible the ship could come apart.

Anyway these are great levels and I've never seen anything like them in the 20 years since the game came out. I'd really love to see what they'd look like in a modern game.

PayasYouRaid · 18-11-22, 19:45

Hello all,

I signed up here to share my interpretation of the Maria Doria, which was partly driven by finding The Great Chi's posts via Google.

I've interpreted the ship as similar to the Australia class of Italian ocean liner, which fits the size and period of the Maria. See drawings on shipbucket of the Australia and her sister the Donizetti.

So I envisage the bombing of the Maria breaking her back and she splits in two, the forward half bottoming upside down, the aft half breaking into the cavern (which is later pumped out by the Bartollis). The aft half breaks up further, the stern above the waterline is crushed, the propeller and rudder section below ends up broken and upside down in the cavern.

I think she would have looked like this, with the various levels annotated:

Lara enters the bow of the ship in 40 Fathoms, and the first part she explores is the cargo holds. These make sense at the bow with the cargo cranes on the fo'c'sle. This is also clear from the various large hatches Lara uses to get about.

The next part, and my favourite level of the four, is the wreck of the Maria Doria. This level has some key passenger areas (indoor pool, ballroom, lounge, and ends with what must be an upper deck pool. However there are a few really interesting mechanical aspects of the ship which are quite revealing. We know she explores the boiler room in the bilges of the ship (where you use the circuit breakers). She leaves via the funnel trunking which ends behind the bridge. This indicates the ship's funnel is very close to the bridge.

The aft half of the ship is upright in the cavern. During Living Quarters, Lara first explores the engine room, which you'd expect to be immediately aft of the boiler room. She then climbs to the theatre, which we know is essentially inside The Deck.

The last level takes place on the various stepped upper decks, as well as around the caverns. We know the ship has broken in two here too. The lower stern is upside down in the main cavern. One thing that never made sense to me was why the Seraph room was where it was, until I figured that it must be part of the ship's aftercastle, most of the stern of the ship being destroyed or inaccessibly beyond the open cavern. Luckily, Lara doesn't need to go further than the single compartment accessible to her.

So that's how I interpret the wreck. I didn't want to step on Great Chi's toes, and they clearly put in a lot of hard work themselves into working out how it all fits together. I hope you'll take my work as an extension of theirs, rather than trying to correct it.

Alternatively, the ships could be depicted as Andrea Dorea class ships, which have a similar configuration but are perhaps a bit big, but it's hard to judge scale when playing Tomb Raider. A lot of the Maria's features are very close to each other, which is why I favour an Australia sister ship.

.snake. · 18-11-22, 23:34

This is all so amazing, thank you for posting this!

Saving these images forever.

Ifrit61 · 19-11-22, 16:31

Wow, this is amazing at the very least!

04-07-17, 10:12	#24
The Great Chi The Inscrutable One Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Beyond the Floating Islands Posts: 9,513	Sorry, wrong guess as I am not an English man I am an Enigma, a mystery and so inscrutable, I do not know who I am either. Anyway this thread is not about me, so lets get back on topic It is about a total wreck........... oh, we are talking about me __________________ Humble words by The Great Chi

18-11-22, 19:45	#28
PayasYouRaid Hobbyist Join Date: Nov 2022 Posts: 4	Hello all, I signed up here to share my interpretation of the Maria Doria, which was partly driven by finding The Great Chi's posts via Google. I've interpreted the ship as similar to the Australia class of Italian ocean liner, which fits the size and period of the Maria. See drawings on shipbucket of the Australia and her sister the Donizetti. So I envisage the bombing of the Maria breaking her back and she splits in two, the forward half bottoming upside down, the aft half breaking into the cavern (which is later pumped out by the Bartollis). The aft half breaks up further, the stern above the waterline is crushed, the propeller and rudder section below ends up broken and upside down in the cavern. I think she would have looked like this, with the various levels annotated: Lara enters the bow of the ship in 40 Fathoms, and the first part she explores is the cargo holds. These make sense at the bow with the cargo cranes on the fo'c'sle. This is also clear from the various large hatches Lara uses to get about. The next part, and my favourite level of the four, is the wreck of the Maria Doria. This level has some key passenger areas (indoor pool, ballroom, lounge, and ends with what must be an upper deck pool. However there are a few really interesting mechanical aspects of the ship which are quite revealing. We know she explores the boiler room in the bilges of the ship (where you use the circuit breakers). She leaves via the funnel trunking which ends behind the bridge. This indicates the ship's funnel is very close to the bridge. The aft half of the ship is upright in the cavern. During Living Quarters, Lara first explores the engine room, which you'd expect to be immediately aft of the boiler room. She then climbs to the theatre, which we know is essentially inside The Deck. The last level takes place on the various stepped upper decks, as well as around the caverns. We know the ship has broken in two here too. The lower stern is upside down in the main cavern. One thing that never made sense to me was why the Seraph room was where it was, until I figured that it must be part of the ship's aftercastle, most of the stern of the ship being destroyed or inaccessibly beyond the open cavern. Luckily, Lara doesn't need to go further than the single compartment accessible to her. So that's how I interpret the wreck. I didn't want to step on Great Chi's toes, and they clearly put in a lot of hard work themselves into working out how it all fits together. I hope you'll take my work as an extension of theirs, rather than trying to correct it. Alternatively, the ships could be depicted as Andrea Dorea class ships, which have a similar configuration but are perhaps a bit big, but it's hard to judge scale when playing Tomb Raider. A lot of the Maria's features are very close to each other, which is why I favour an Australia sister ship. Last edited by PayasYouRaid; 19-11-22 at 16:40.

04-07-17, 12:48	#25
Fantasy Fan Student Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Perhaps Durotar or Uldum Posts: 122	Oh, Chi, you're not a wreck and you know it! And always remain an enigma! But okay, we'll get back on topic.

04-07-17, 13:09	#26
Anakzunamuhn Historian Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 268	It's the first time I've seen an explanatory image of the Inscrutable One. I'm feeling like I've missed lots of useful info.

09-07-17, 15:49	#27
rob032 Hobbyist Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1	It's a strange setup, but Core had to come up with something to make the area difficult to explore because: On a normal shipwreck Lara and Marco could simply turn up and retrieve the Seraph - there would be no need to explore the whole ship and it would defeat the point of the game. A passing diver or submarine might have found the Seraph in the meantime. With a bit of imagination it's not that hard to imagine the ship breaking up and falling into the cavern - we know Brother Barkhang's father 'bombed' the ship, if he targeted structural weak points it's feasible the ship could come apart. Anyway these are great levels and I've never seen anything like them in the 20 years since the game came out. I'd really love to see what they'd look like in a modern game.

18-11-22, 23:34	#29
.snake. Inactive Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York Posts: 3,382	This is all so amazing, thank you for posting this! Saving these images forever.

19-11-22, 16:31	#30
Ifrit61 Student Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 154	Wow, this is amazing at the very least!