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Old 05-11-21, 09:57   #21
.snake.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellioft View Post
Taken from the LaraCroft wiki ^^

There are several things in the game itself that suggest the Emperor in the intro FMV is Qin Shihuang. In the Temple of Xian Lara discovers many Terracotta warriors in one room. The real Terracotta statues depict the army of Qin Shihuang. The real Terracotta warriors are also located in the city called Xi'an.

If I remember correctly, I think there may have been a games magazine article or two that actually named the Emperor in the intro FMV.

I did remember to have read his name into a magazine article in french.
You're still giving a lot of fan interpretations. In TR4, images from Tutankhamun's tomb plaster the walls of Cleopatra's Palaces. This does not mean that Cleopatra had anything to do with King Tut. It's just Core being historically inaccurate, and so a few terracotta warriors in the Temple of Xian don't mean anything.

The Lara Croft wiki is filled with so many errors, and whoever runs it does not seem to update or fix those errors. (Such as placing the Ireland adventure before Cambodia, which has been disproven by Core's most recent timeline).

This is a scan from the TR2 booklet. No mention of someone called Qin Shihuang, even though you said he is mentioned in the booklet.

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Originally Posted by Ellioft View Post
We know the first emperor of China mentionned in the TR2 booklet is Qin Shihuang.


The Qin Shihuang entry on the Lara Croft wiki page seems to only mention him as being the first emperor of Imperial China. That doesn't have anything to do with TR2 though, so writing him into TR2 is fan fiction. It's nice fan fiction, it's good fan fiction, but whoever runs the page really should clarify that it is fan fiction and not official.

If you have a different scan from a different TR2 booklet, then that is great. Or if you have scans of the French magazines that mention Qin Shihuang, that's great too. But for now it really does just seem like fan imagination.

Last edited by .snake.; 05-11-21 at 09:59.
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Old 05-11-21, 14:58   #22
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I've taken up Chinese chess (called Xiangqi) in the past few years and have gotten to know some Chinese people online through a Xiangqi website. I asked one about this topic and his reply was that it's probably the Dagger of Xi'an

His words- "Xian" (better written in English as Xi'an or Xi An) corresponds to 西安 (Xī'ān), the capital city of Shaanxi Province.

Xiān, or 仙, are legendary Taoist Immortals.


The Chinese version of Tomb Raider has Chinese characters in the product description and they seem to translate distinctly as "Xi'an"

So Xian seems to refer to a place, not a person. However I have to say the "immortal" aspect suits the characteristic of the dagger perfectly! Whether the devlopers knew this or it was just coincidence I don't know.
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Old 05-11-21, 15:31   #23
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As many have pointed out, I think it is just a mistake by the developers that they named it Xian instead of Xi'an. I would speculate that they were searching for the next theme and places of tomb raider and came to the conclusion that the great wall and the terracotta warriors were great to implement into the gameplay. From there you are not far away from finding out that Xian has the meaning of immortality etc.

But it is also only speculation from my side, we shouldn't forget that there were many inaccuracies build into the games and it's quite hard to figur out what is canon and what is not.
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Old 05-11-21, 15:35   #24
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Honestly, the fact that Core's games weren't historically accurate makes them more endearing as a work of fiction imo and more unique.

I mean, it wasn't an isolated incident. Look at TR4. Horus and Seth were depicted as cousins there, and in real Egyptian mythology Horus was depicted as being his nephew.
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Old 06-11-21, 05:49   #25
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Another argument against the “Dragon Emperor” being Qin Shihuang: Buddhism didn’t reach Tibet until hundreds of years later: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._(6th_century)

Honestly though, I think Core just pulled together anything they liked from ancient China: Great Wall, terracotta warriors, dragons… Also, Chinese dragons don’t breath fire (usually), they are associated with rain. So, I think debating exactly where or when TR2’s story takes place might be missing the root of it, which is just fantasy
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Old 06-11-21, 08:59   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jathom95 View Post
I mean, it wasn't an isolated incident. Look at TR4. Horus and Seth were depicted as cousins there, and in real Egyptian mythology Horus was depicted as being his nephew.
Horus and Seth can either be brothers in the oldest texts, or nephew and uncle respectively in the more recent texts. But they truly are never ever cousins... lol. So yeah, I really don't get how Core fumbled that one. I've also looked at the original TR4 story design documents and they actually had a doctor in Egyptology help them with the games story and locations. But that's Core being Core. I can't fault them for it though because TR4 is still one of their best games.

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Originally Posted by Craig Michaels View Post
Honestly though, I think Core just pulled together anything they liked from ancient China: Great Wall, terracotta warriors, dragons… Also, Chinese dragons don’t breath fire (usually), they are associated with rain. So, I think debating exactly where or when TR2’s story takes place might be missing the root of it, which is just fantasy
Yes, this. ^

My issue was just with certain people posting here as if the whole emperor Qin Shihuang was some sort of confirmed official canon. Which it simply isn't.

It's a shame that Lara Croft Wiki page posts things as if they are official when half of it is fan fiction.

Last edited by .snake.; 06-11-21 at 09:07.
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Old 06-11-21, 12:38   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Michaels View Post
Honestly though, I think Core just pulled together anything they liked from ancient China: Great Wall, terracotta warriors, dragons… Also, Chinese dragons don’t breath fire (usually), they are associated with rain. So, I think debating exactly where or when TR2’s story takes place might be missing the root of it, which is just fantasy
I also think this. The fact that they did this frequently makes me think, intentionally or not, the stories were loosely based on the real myths and legends instead of using them wholesale. Like my TR4 example, they wanted H&S to kind of be on equal standing with Horus being the only one truly capable of stopping Seth. Having Horus be his nephew (and yes brother in the oldest texts as snake mentioned) like the real thing would've made Horus sound kind of "lesser". Having them as cousins, as I mentioned, kind of puts them on equal footing without making it too rooted in reality like them being brothers instead. And Seth still views himself as the stronger one even though he was locked away since he refers to Horus as "my weak cousin".

Maybe all of it is me just putting Core on a pedestal haha. But the fact that they did this more than once, I like to think they were all intentional.
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Old 07-11-21, 00:00   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .snake. View Post
Yes, this. ^

My issue was just with certain people posting here as if the whole emperor Qin Shihuang was some sort of confirmed official canon. Which it simply isn't.

It's a shame that Lara Croft Wiki page posts things as if they are official when half of it is fan fiction.
I actually bothered to check the source cited on the wiki page, it's the backplot from the Tomb Raider Travellers Guide website. At the bottom of the page that info comes from it confirms that everything they wrote about the backplot is fan fiction aside from this one quote from Vicky Arnold.

"The Emperor is the dragon; the idea being that the dagger will give this power to whoever has enough belief to drive it into their heart - and that his warriors who fight alongside him will have added powers too. Hence the [Fiama Nera] cult's interest [in the dagger]. The guy with the disturbing green eyes is one of the Emperor's generals and when the dragon is killed, he and the other soldiers return to their normal human strength. You might be able to see when the general falls to his knees, that his eyes turn back to normal and his fangs and reptilian skin disappear."

Two minutes to check the source on a wiki page. I quite agree that fans need to be more careful. Wiki pages are not sources, and have a lot of false information on them. That's why you should always check where the information came from.

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Old 07-11-21, 01:48   #29
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Thank you for posting that Boobandie!

Traveler's Guide really is one of the only - if not that only - fan website that always made an effort to post proper footnotes and differentiate between which information was official and which was embellished or invented out of thin air.
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Old 07-11-21, 05:20   #30
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They really went the extra mile to make the relatively bare bones storytelling of the PS1 era games feel more fleshed out, and clear up a bit of confusion at the same time.

Definitely worth reading to anyone who hasn't already.
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