Tomb Raider II Discussion Thread - Page 3

mizuno_suisei · 08-03-22, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRExpertgamer

How come you think it's impossible to upgrade this TR2 game engine by giving upgrading Lara's animations with sprinting, rolling animation, crawling, and monkey swinging? I think there's still a way how we can do that just like what Core Design did for the E3 1998 version of TR3.

You asked me this via PM and I already told you why

the games may only be a year apart and similar engines but, what you're asking is not possible because it's not just a case of adding animations, theres coding involved too. Core worked hard to improve the TR3 engine to add an extra moveset to Laras adventures.

I dont really know why you're bringing up the E3 beta again, it contains the tr3 moves bexause.. it's literally an early version of tr3 haha.

If you want to be able to sprint etc in TR2, play the TR2 Conversion Project for TRLE. this is made in the TR4 engine.

TRExpertgamer · 08-03-22, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizuno_suisei

You asked me this via PM and I already told you why

the games may only be a year apart and similar engines but, what you're asking is not possible because it's not just a case of adding animations, theres coding involved too. Core worked hard to improve the TR3 engine to add an extra moveset to Laras adventures.

I dont really know why you're bringing up the E3 beta again, it contains the tr3 moves bexause.. it's literally an early version of tr3 haha.

If you want to be able to sprint etc in TR2, play the TR2 Conversion Project for TRLE. this is made in the TR4 engine.

I understand but what I'm saying is the way Core Design made the E3 1998 version of it was because they basically obtained and upgraded the engine data of TR2 besides using the source code if that's what you're particularly talking about coding things in for the engine. I know there wasn't even any multicolored textures to that significant version because it's the same engine they used to upgrade from TR2 from some application they used for E3 1998 version of TR3 somehow. That's why I believe it's possible to upgrade TR2'S engine like that somehow.

There has to be a way how I can try to do this

mizuno_suisei · 08-03-22, 13:54

You're still missing the point

TR2 to TR3 beta to TR3 is going forward in production, not backwards. The beta was not some unique build in the middle, it was a work in progress as they finalized the full version of tr3. If it was possible, we'd probably see this already in the modding community but, it's kinda redundant considering TR2 does not have monkey bars etc in its actual game as a platforming function, there would be no where to perform the act

and so on. The closest you'll get to this, and probably ever is the TRLE TR2 conversion project, where you can crawl and sprint. These moves are possibly only helpful though for passing areas quicker.

TRExpertgamer · 08-03-22, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizuno_suisei

You're still missing the point

TR2 to TR3 beta to TR3 is going forward in production, not backwards. The beta was not some unique build in the middle, it was a work in progress as they finalized the full version of tr3. If it was possible, we'd probably see this already in the modding community but, it's kinda redundant considering TR2 does not have monkey bars etc in its actual game as a platforming function, there would be no where to perform the act

and so on. The closest you'll get to this, and probably ever is the TRLE TR2 conversion project, where you can crawl and sprint. These moves are possibly only helpful though for passing areas quicker.

Hmm.

Ok I understand. But I think there are WIP versions of level editors in this site I believe so. Do you know if there's any?

https://www.aspidetr.com/en/?

Nick_ · 08-03-22, 18:26

I've just had time to go back to play the first couple of games as I have been recovering from Covid (not life threatening).

I have to say that I think TR1 has stood the test of time much better than TR2.

TR2 seemed like a classic at the time, and it starts really well with the opening level (where they probably used up too many good ideas), but things really go downhill for a while after that.

It's been mentioned many times before, but it was such an odd decision to take the worst aspect of the first game (shooting human adversaries hundreds of times) and make that the main aspect of the second game. When you have that element and some of the humdrum early levels, you lose quite a bit of what makes Tomb Raider great.

Thankfully things do improve with levels like The Tibetan Foothills which is a much needed change of location.

NikkySan · 08-03-22, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick_

I've just had time to go back to play the first couple of games as I have been recovering from Covid (not life threatening).

I have to say that I think TR1 has stood the test of time much better than TR2.

TR2 seemed like a classic at the time, and it starts really well with the opening level (where they probably used up too many good ideas), but things really go downhill for a while after that.

It's been mentioned many times before, but it was such an odd decision to take the worst aspect of the first game (shooting human adversaries hundreds of times) and make that the main aspect of the second game. When you have that element and some of the humdrum early levels, you lose quite a bit of what makes Tomb Raider great.

Thankfully things do improve with levels like The Tibetan Foothills which is a much needed change of location.

Yeah I have to agree, they went way overboard with the combat in TR2. ESPECIALLY during the Venice -> Maria Doria portion of the game. Around nearly every corner was two more armed goons waiting to take off half your health. There really shouldn’t be that many human enemies in the Maria Doria, I just don’t think they have the smarts or skills like Lara to venture that deep into the wreckage. TR1 and TR3 got the balance between puzzles, exploration and combat just right I feel. Don’t get me wrong, TR2 is still an amazing game but that has always been my biggest gripe with it.

redfox45 · 08-03-22, 23:24

Ok TR2: Gold has good levels but Nightmare in Vegas is a broken, buggy embarrasment.

Just terrible.
You literally softlock the level if you return to the stage area and make it impossible to take down the boss and end the level.

Sat42 · 10-03-22, 22:46

I thought Nightmare in Vegas was worth it just for how bunkers it is.

It's a fully-fledged level (bugs notwithstanding) and significantly better than the bonus level for Tomb Raider III (and for that one I had to cheat to play it!): All Hallows is fine and all, until you realise it's over just as you were getting into it.

TRExpertgamer · 11-03-22, 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizuno_suisei

You're still missing the point

TR2 to TR3 beta to TR3 is going forward in production, not backwards. The beta was not some unique build in the middle, it was a work in progress as they finalized the full version of tr3. If it was possible, we'd probably see this already in the modding community but, it's kinda redundant considering TR2 does not have monkey bars etc in its actual game as a platforming function, there would be no where to perform the act

and so on. The closest you'll get to this, and probably ever is the TRLE TR2 conversion project, where you can crawl and sprint. These moves are possibly only helpful though for passing areas quicker.

But do you know how did they obtained all the weapons and graphic data engine from TR2? And I don't understand how did they started to get Lara to do all of those monkey swinging, roll, & sprinting animations while they took all the weapons and graphic engine data from TR2 to upgrade it. How did they do all of that for the E3 1998 version of TR3? And how so is it really true that we cannot add in all of those animations for this TR2 engine for the full game of TR2? I don't understand. This possibility has still coming into my head saying that there's a way how we can mod it like that. But like you said there's no way to do that? How so? Is there any more details you can explain to me about this? Hmm.

I need more answers to learn about this. I need your help with that. So please explain to me more details about how so is it really true that we cannot add those animations just like Core Design upgraded all of that for the E3 1998 version of TR3.

mizuno_suisei · 11-03-22, 06:46

It's pretty simple imo. It's just continuation of progress. Each game and its betas were made sequentially between 1996, 1997 and 1998. What you're asking is for improvements to the game code to be made BACKWARDS in time, which is redundant haha. (Eg. There are no monkey bars in TR2 for Lara to actually use, as it wasnt a move in that game at the time)

The TR2 engine evolved into the TR3 engine over time as technology and know how of programming progressed. the betas arent unique builds, they're WIP builds of the eventual game to be released.

Not much more to it really- its literally just improvements in coding as the 90s flew by, adding new moves and the like to each TR game as it was released

08-03-22, 23:24	#27
redfox45 Professor Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Temple of Xian Posts: 3,374	Ok TR2: Gold has good levels but Nightmare in Vegas is a broken, buggy embarrasment. Just terrible. You literally softlock the level if you return to the stage area and make it impossible to take down the boss and end the level. __________________ "They stay inside their little ponds" Last edited by redfox45; 08-03-22 at 23:49.

11-03-22, 06:46	#30
mizuno_suisei Relic Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,653	It's pretty simple imo. It's just continuation of progress. Each game and its betas were made sequentially between 1996, 1997 and 1998. What you're asking is for improvements to the game code to be made BACKWARDS in time, which is redundant haha. (Eg. There are no monkey bars in TR2 for Lara to actually use, as it wasnt a move in that game at the time) The TR2 engine evolved into the TR3 engine over time as technology and know how of programming progressed. the betas arent unique builds, they're WIP builds of the eventual game to be released. Not much more to it really- its literally just improvements in coding as the 90s flew by, adding new moves and the like to each TR game as it was released Last edited by mizuno_suisei; 11-03-22 at 06:53.

08-03-22, 13:54	#23
mizuno_suisei Relic Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,653	You're still missing the point TR2 to TR3 beta to TR3 is going forward in production, not backwards. The beta was not some unique build in the middle, it was a work in progress as they finalized the full version of tr3. If it was possible, we'd probably see this already in the modding community but, it's kinda redundant considering TR2 does not have monkey bars etc in its actual game as a platforming function, there would be no where to perform the act and so on. The closest you'll get to this, and probably ever is the TRLE TR2 conversion project, where you can crawl and sprint. These moves are possibly only helpful though for passing areas quicker.

08-03-22, 18:26	#25
Nick_ Hobbyist Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 1	I've just had time to go back to play the first couple of games as I have been recovering from Covid (not life threatening). I have to say that I think TR1 has stood the test of time much better than TR2. TR2 seemed like a classic at the time, and it starts really well with the opening level (where they probably used up too many good ideas), but things really go downhill for a while after that. It's been mentioned many times before, but it was such an odd decision to take the worst aspect of the first game (shooting human adversaries hundreds of times) and make that the main aspect of the second game. When you have that element and some of the humdrum early levels, you lose quite a bit of what makes Tomb Raider great. Thankfully things do improve with levels like The Tibetan Foothills which is a much needed change of location.

10-03-22, 22:46	#28
Sat42 Hobbyist Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 49	I thought Nightmare in Vegas was worth it just for how bunkers it is. It's a fully-fledged level (bugs notwithstanding) and significantly better than the bonus level for Tomb Raider III (and for that one I had to cheat to play it!): All Hallows is fine and all, until you realise it's over just as you were getting into it.