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Old 11-05-19, 16:12   #141
Yeauxleaux
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Crash Site... idk by that point I'm just like "oh look a dinosaur, yawn", because I think it was played out after the (#iconic) Lost Valley level and putting them in again as a secret find in TR2. They were also way, way too OP here. That wouldn't have been a problem, but when Nevada already took all our guns and ammo away, and we've got Antarctica coming up, we really don't wanna be pouring loads of scant resources into these here.

It's a decent enough level but nothing super memorable for me personally. Pretty much a cookie-cutter hub with branching side areas (I love that as the MO of Tomb Raider level design, but I don't think this one did it particularly well).

I don't know if that cave area with all the monkey swinging was actually supposed to be something. Maybe it was supposed to be a secret, maybe an area with another key, but it seems like they put it in and then just forgot about it because there's absolutely no need to go there. It's pretty out of the way too, I'm fairly sure the vast, vast majority of players probably didn't realise it was there on the first playthrough.

Last edited by Yeauxleaux; 11-05-19 at 16:25.
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Old 11-05-19, 23:37   #142
sheepman23
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Originally Posted by Suzan View Post
I really like how you word things, I often nod at the stuff you say like "ahh yes yes, I agree, now that you said it" but cant really explain my thoughts or put my finger on them before you explain them

Crash Site is a memorable level indeed, the ending used to get me so hyped lmao
Thanks Suzan!

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Originally Posted by Yeauxleaux View Post
Crash Site... idk by that point I'm just like "oh look a dinosaur, yawn", because I think it was played out after the (#iconic) Lost Valley level and putting them in again as a secret find in TR2. They were also way, way too OP here. That wouldn't have been a problem, but when Nevada already took all our guns and ammo away, and we've got Antarctica coming up, we really don't wanna be pouring loads of scant resources into these here.
Idk, I'd argue that a lot of the raptor encounters here are pretty easy to use pistols on from safety, and we have enough MP5 ammo for the ones that aren't. DEagle ammo is much harder to come by unless you're looking in all of the secret spots, so I can see why preserving that is paramount. But I don't think there's too much demand on our resources. There simply aren't enough raptors total to be a real problem. I didn't do a count but the number isn't that high, it just seems higher since they do have more HP.

Also, no, the "it's a dinosaur" trope certainly isn't the reason why this level is sold so well - it's the way that the dinosaurs are handled. The Lost Valley was great for the surprise factor, The Great Wall was great for the secret mini-boss factor, and Crash Site is great because the dinosaurs genuinely feel challenging this time.

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I don't know if that cave area with all the monkey swinging was actually supposed to be something. Maybe it was supposed to be a secret, maybe an area with another key, but it seems like they put it in and then just forgot about it because there's absolutely no need to go there. It's pretty out of the way too, I'm fairly sure the vast, vast majority of players probably didn't realise it was there on the first playthrough.
I actually never realized that it was possible to just get on top of the plane in my OG playthrough, but I did discover the path through that cave up to the top, so I always just assumed it was the intended route. The only thing that kind of sucks about the cave is how few pickups there are within it (like, a save crystal and a pack of flares I think), so it would've been nice if there could've at least been an extra secret here or something.
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Old 13-05-19, 00:29   #143
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While I was hoping for some more thoughts on Crash Site (other than my own), I've waited 4 days for this review and I'm too excited to wait longer...


SOUTH PACIFIC ISLANDS
Level 14 - Madubu Gorge




To this day, when someone asks me the question: "What types of games do you enjoy?", I have trouble putting my finger on an answer to that question. The short answer? Well, I really don't know. I could say action-adventure because of my roots in Tomb Raider and love for action flicks like Uncharted or survival horror titles like The Last of Us; similarly, my long history with the Crash Bandicoot franchise could point to me towards loving platformers. I've got moderate experience with RPGs, and in particular loved the cross of light RPG and action in the Mass Effect series. But when it comes down to it, I don't feel like I play games to experience a certain type of gameplay - I play games to experience moments.

One of my most profound memories in my minimal but involved history of games was when I stepped off of the ship in Assassin's Creed II's Venice. After being incredibly impressed with the first half of one of my earliest 7th-generation console games, I will never forget how mesmerized I was by the beautiful views of the harbor, the haunting background music, and the fact that this was my city to explore for hours upon hours. I still get chills if I listen to "Tour of Venice" because that song evokes such strong emotions from me. Similarly, the Omega station in Mass Effect 2 soaked me into the franchise's universe quicker than I've ever felt a game do before. As I wondered around such a wonderfully crafted city that felt so real and alive, I suddenly felt like I was Commander Shepard, and that I was the one off to save the galaxy from certain destruction. (I played ME2 before ME1, so yes, bad order I know , but the impact it had on me is still large.)

I've got an entire list that contains my "best memories in gaming", and for as much as I would love to go on and on with its contents, I feel like those two moments are most important since they occurred during an era where I branched from my roots of Crash and Lara out to other games. They made me realize that gaming is so much more than solving a puzzle, fighting some baddies, or appreciating scenic graphics. All of these traits are important, but at the end of the day, I think we all play and enjoy games because we can get absorbed into a world and, more importantly, an experience.



In the world of Tomb Raider, there isn't a grand moment like the arrival at Venice or Omega where you uncover hours of the ability to do nothing, yet still feel wholly immersed. Instead, these games use the constant thrill of "what's coming next?" to drive our curiosities. The South Pacific isn't some huge island for us to become mesmerized in, but rather an island for us to progress through and continuously uncover the secrets of. So when Madubu Gorge comes up, it's all about the continuation of said trek.

The reason why this particular experience sticks out to me is because I've never felt more a part of the Tomb Raider world than I do during Madubu Gorge. That's a walloping claim to start the review off on, but well, I'll just say that it's used on a level that is very near and dear to my heart. (And let's face it, it's not a secret .)

I'll start with the stage's sense of a journey since that's the backbone around what this experience is made of. At the beginning of Madubu Gorge, the player is overlooking a cliff with whitewater rapids down below. If we explore, a few poisonous green lizards come out of the woodwork to ruin our day (I'll have more to say about these beasts later). But across the river is a very large temple structure. At first glance, it seems obvious that this will be our final destination, but upon further exploration, there doesn't seem to be a way for us to get up there. Is that where Puna is residing? Who knows, but we won't be reaching it from here.



Instead, the designers take us on a trek across the raging waters in pursuit of something to get us further down. This is the first great feature of this level. Before we even have access to the kayak - well, assuming we didn't find the secret one at the beginning, which is a TINY gripe I have with this level's structure - we're treated to a bunch of gorgeous vistas and views from high above the rapids. We can't yet traverse along these deadly waters, but we can hop above them in search for a different way down. As a result, Madubu Gorge's first chunk is a chance for us to utilize our platforming skills while finding a few goodies here and there. It's an utterly beautiful trek along the waters, too. I had a host of screenshots that I wanted to share for this review, but had to cap it around the 9-10 mark like I normally do, which is unfortunate since this is undoubtedly one of the most scenic stages in the entire damn series.

Gameplay-wise, there isn't a ton to say about this first portion; there are a few devious traps here and there, but nothing we're not used to at this point in TR3. The designers also continue to show their love for placing enemies in the worst-case-scenario locations for Lara, largely shown by a green lizard who appears the second you venture into a crawlspace.

Just after obtaining the fantastically-placed second secret - which involves a tricky backflip onto a sloped rock that can easily be missed - we uncover a chamber containing the kayak. At this point, the player has already likely begun wondering if the "on-foot" approach is all they can hope for the in the gorge, and the kayak is their answer to this. Nope, we're going to get the full whitewater rapids experience, folks, and that brings me to one of the level's more... shall we say, controversial points.





For as much as I love to defend it, the kayak does not have great controls. The player must go to great lengths to fight against the current, which is exemplified particularly well through the save crystal at the end of a current-swept cave later on in the level. It can demand a lot of time and health loss to the player, and nicking the edge of a cave with the thing practically erases all prior progress you might have made against the current.

And while it's not my goal to justify such inadequacies, here's the thing with the kayak: I don't care. I have such a ridiculous amount of fun travelling downstream with this thing. For starters, it behaves like I would expect a kayak to in raging waters, so that's a plus for realism. Secondly, I've already established how beautiful this level is, so the kayak offers a chance to experience that beauty from a different viewpoint. We've already spent nearly 20 minutes exploring the cliff faces above the rapids, so it's finally time to actually get in on them ourselves, and boy do we get involved. There are a few points where we travel underneath of pretty waterfalls or dangling moss in the caves, and I think we even trigger a few colonies of bats; little touches like this add to the aesthetic that Madubu Gorge has already presented, and it's just wonderful. Lastly, the journey down the rapids in the kayak is filled with decisions that can cause everything from massive amounts of health loss to entirely different pathways to travel down. And because we're making all of these choices in the moment, the experience feels more real than any TR vehicle implementation has in the past. If there's one point I can't stress enough in Madubu, it's how much I feel absorbed into this level and Lara's traversal of it, and the kayak is a testament to this feeling.

Also, yeah, it's not easy to control and turn, but honestly? As long as you speed through any activated traps and mash the "backwards" button on long drops, you're going to come out of this with fairly minimal scars. Can you say the same for some of those ridiculous lethal cliffs in The River Ganges, or the mine cart antics (oops, spoiler ) in RX Tech Mines? Probably not.



The second half of Madubu Gorge mirrors the first portion; this time, we're traversing back up the rapids in search of a way to pull that giant-ass plug in the underground cavern. Again, while the level doesn't exactly clue us in that that's the solution, it doesn't present any other viable options, so when we discover the long monkey swing near the flaming faces, it's obviously the path forward that we need to take. Speaking of which, this is the second level in a row to present long monkey-swinging sections, and I'm actually quite okay with it! Yeah, it's long and sometimes a tad bit boring, but definitely more exciting that climbing long rock walls. (Shh, this level has some of those too. )

Like the journey downwards, the journey back up has various goodies hiding all over the place, and even takes us past a few areas that we previously explored on the ride down. One of this level's biggest strengths is its ability to connect its various areas together in a meaningful manner. I like how the mechanism to "pull the plug" is placed in an area that was entirely visible earlier - we just weren't able to exit the kayak due to the rapids.

Hell, the designers even throw in a damn boulder passage to top off the level's gameplay variety. It's highly random but does a good job of segmenting our river-hopping platforming journey.



Madubu Gorge's final challenge comes after the player pulls the plug. The kayak ride down the drain is brutal but feels like a proper climactic ending to a level that has been so focused on progression down the gorge. The reveal of entirely secret chamber underneath is cool stuff, and feels very much like a "back way" into Puna's abode. We still don't know if the unreachable temple at the level's entrance had any significance, but we found our way in, and that's what matters.

That's also it - that's the experience of Madubu Gorge. My high-level overview of what happens in this level can't be complete, however, with a little focus on the various touches that bring this entire setting together.

I said it once and I'll say it again, but this level is truly a marvel to look at. Much like Coastal Village, Madubu impresses with how it encourages us to just stand and ogle at our surroundings without doing anything at all - there's so much visual and audio flavor going on. This includes the whitewater rapids in the background and the "watery" feel of the ambient track at hand. Music tracks are inserted sparingly during the first portion, but some big moments occur later when the South Pacific Islands theme is triggered upon the first kayak journey. Much like the drums of "No Waiting Around" work in favor of Nevada's focus on big combat moments, the kayak music uses various swells and tribal chants to drive home the feeling of being immersed in the rapids and this jungle environment. This occurs again before we go down the drain and works extremely well for the stage's final obstacle.

The poisonous green lizards and crocodiles aren't as monstrous as Crash Site's raptors, but again, they're so well-placed throughout the level that there's rarely a point where they're just easy pick-offs from a distance. The first time that we're able to get out of the kayak forces us to dive into a pool of water with a hungry crocodile; that's cruel, but it's the kind of cruel that we see coming and know that we may not leave unscathed from. Have fun, no-scratch runners!





Conclusion:

Pros
+ Beautiful and aesthetically pleasing environment
+ Level maintains an awesome sense of progression towards a goal
+ Lizard and crocodile encounters are well implemented
+ Traps and trap sequences are sprinkled in at the right moments
+ High focus on challenging platforming
+ The kayak experience is spontaneously thrilling
+ Plenty of well-hidden secrets and item pickups throughout
+ It's a tough, tough ride, but the difficulty rarely feels contrived

Cons
- Addition of the first kayak can unfortunately cause the player to miss a great part of the level
- The long climbing/swinging sequences can be a drag at times

My opening to this review about how I love gaming for its moments rather than just gameplay speaks to why I feel the way I do about Madubu Gorge. Gameplay-wise, it's probably not the pinnacle of TR. It's up there, but if I'm looking for an overall package, then Madubu is it. What experiences soak you into the Tomb Raider universe? For me, it's stuff like Madubu Gorge, but I fully understand that this may not be everyone's cup of tea. However, my adoration for watery environments like this stage's setting, quirky sequences like the kayak run, and visual packages that are as utterly beautiful as Madubu is are what make the TR experience for me.

I can't sing this level's praises enough, so I hope that some of the rest of you can help sing them with me. Madubu Gorge is truly an instant classic.

Rating - 10/10


Current Rankings:
  1. Madubu Gorge (10/10)
  2. Area 51 (10/10)
  3. Crash Site (9/10)
  4. Aldwych (9/10)
  5. Nevada Desert (9/10)
  6. Temple Ruins (8/10)
  7. High Security Compound (8/10)
  8. Jungle (8/10)
  9. City (8/10)
  10. Coastal Village (7/10)
  11. Lud's Gate (6/10)
  12. The River Ganges (6/10)
  13. Thames Wharf (6/10)
  14. Caves of Kaliya (4/10)

Last edited by sheepman23; 13-05-19 at 00:35.
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Old 13-05-19, 12:23   #144
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Talking To kill or not kill, that is the question

I have been enjoying this review, but would like to make a comment about too much sympathy for the tribesmen, which is not that justified, as if they have weapons on them, which they do, then they are fair game to be killed, just as all baddies in Tomb Raider, like guards, they are paid to be killed, etc

If Lara had turned her back on these cannibals, she would have been on the menu, as 'roasted raider'

Further to this, we as players controlling Lara, do not have to kill every baddies in the game, and instead can decide to spare some or all of them by running by the area, unless that is not possible by one or two blocking the exit, or we need a specific pickup key by killing a baddie.

The choice is really down to us, depending if you are blood thirsty, or like to sneak by without a kill. Lara can outrun most baddies.


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Old 13-05-19, 16:12   #145
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I never commented on Crash Site, so I’ll quickly do that before talking about Madubu Gorge.

The perfect summary of Crash Site is most certainly “The Lost Valley on Steroids”. This never hit me when I first played the level, but it totally fits. The parallel of facing a dinosaur and raptors in an underground world is truly wonderful and slightly nostalgic when you think about it. I absolutely loved the bazooka sequence at the end of the level. It felt so unique, and using it to also blast the wall and reveal the level’s ending was perfect. I also really liked the idea of using the dead raptor as piranha bait to get across, since we don’t have those types of clever moments all that often in the first few games.

—————————

Madubu Gorge is just amazing. I can’t get over how awesome the South Pacific section of TR3 as a whole, but Madubu Gorge is, without a doubt, the standout level of the set. It’s beautiful, it’s tense partly due to the kayak’s controls (which I also agree were realistic), it’s nicely segmented, and we don’t ever feel like we’re getting too much of one particular pillar of gameplay.

The only thing that is perhaps missing, is combat. There are a few encounters, but they felt really short-lived and random. However, that isn’t the biggest deal, seeing what the level offers and how much combat you find in Nevada, for example.
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Old 13-05-19, 21:20   #146
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Originally Posted by sheepman23 View Post
While I was hoping for some more thoughts on Crash Site (other than my own), I've waited 4 days for this review and I'm too excited to wait longer...
Sorry about that. I've been busy with my life and inactive for some time. I'm happy enough that I found some free hours to log in, read some messages and chat with people. Life is brutal, though.
I'm composing a reply at the moment and we'll see how much I'll be able to write before leaving. Wish me all the best! If I won't be able to deal with something, I'll take another opportunity some time later. Be patient...

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For lack of a better term, these raptors are basically juiced-up TR1 raptors. They behave almost exactly the same way but take what feels like a million bullets to dispatch. Hell, I tried to kill a few with grenades in this level, and did you guys know that they take THREE GRENADES to kill? That's bonkers! What the hell are these dinos eating on this island?
A bit of realism I'd say. I doubt a single frag grenade would instantly deal with someone. The same when we talk about other guns. Bleeding is what kills.

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When Crash Site isn't busy promoting a slight sci-fi horror vibe through its use of dinos, it even manages to craft a few really innovative puzzles. My favorite of these is the piranha-filled river. While it's a little ridiculous to think that Lara couldn't have just... you know, targeted the rope from below, it's still a very well-telegraphed puzzle solution since we don't often see random raptors dangling from the ceiling.
IIRC one can aim manually with the Look button and firing a Bazooka. Does it work against that raptor?

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Originally Posted by sheepman23 View Post
Crash Site's final puzzle is a cavern which gives our heroine a lot of monkey-bar exercise. While this bit isn't particularly tough to solve or that different from a lot of the platforming that TR3 provides, it's cool to see a room that revolves so heavily around monkey-swinging and scaling the walls. One wrong move, and you're headed down into a deep pit. I also didn't realize that it's entirely possible to skip this room through non-cheating methods, which must be really funny for people who went through it in the wrong direction and realized there was nothing on the other side...
It's weird when I think I never visited that location during my regular playthrough when I first got into the game.
No, actually... I have never solved that puzzle in my entire life and always skipped it! Hah

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Originally Posted by sheepman23 View Post
The stage closes with another cutscene. This time, we actually get to talk to one of the natives even though we mowed over an entire tribe in the previous episode (this is now the second time that TR3 has had us shoot first and ask questions later, behind Aldwych... ).
Yeah, "we"...
I guess you know what was my intention after reading my previous messages. Don't worry, I'm actually not mad for the words used.

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Oh well - the man has to fast, and Lara has to get a move on to murder "the god who lives up in the hills". Any reason why no one seems to be able to say Puna's name?
Has it ever been confirmed that this is his name? I don't know but when I think about the whole situation, I don't think such an ancient temple has been built for someone who's been in this world for less time. Enlighten me if necessary.

More is yet to come. Composing such replies combined with a bit of thinking about flashbacks from the game consumes time which I haven't been having that much recently.
So, yes, my replies will be delayed but hopefully they'll have something worth discussing and more content after thinking some stuff through. Thanks for understanding me.
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Old 13-05-19, 21:47   #147
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The South Pacific levels confuse me geographically.

At the start of Coastal Village, we see Lara swim into a cove, this is at what we're assuming is sea level no? Except on the other side of the hills there's a massive waterfall that drops down to an area lower than that... but it's still not totally submerged in water.

Then again when Puna is described as living "up in the hills", this is immediately before Lara rafts her way downriver (including several more waterfalls) towards the temple.

Anyway Madubu Gorge is a simply gorgeous level, beautifully intricate with the paths intertwining, lovely platforming sequences... pretty much ruined by that ****ing kayak that, for me, makes the level unbearable and one of the absolute worst in TR3. It's a tragic shame because I'd actually agree with that 10/10 rating wholeheartedly if the kayak was just somewhat easier to control.
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Old 13-05-19, 21:58   #148
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Madubu Gorge is a simply gorgeous level
I see what you did here.
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Old 13-05-19, 22:32   #149
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...The only thing that is perhaps missing, is combat. .
........Just add a few pirates and you get plenty of combat action

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Old 13-05-19, 22:51   #150
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........Just add a few pirates and you get plenty of combat action

lol, nice video, Chi.
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