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Old 21-02-20, 14:15   #231
SnatchingEdges
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I mean heck, just compare Rise and TR2's flamethrower enemies, Rise's is a stock boss fight that's easy, TR2's is a regular enemy that is a serious threat, I was bored during Rise's fight but whenever a TR2 flamethrower enemy shows up, I panic, run as far as away from him as I can and I take out my most powerful weapon possible because I know I'm almost certainly dead if I get lit on fire. (or lose a bunch of medpacks running to water.)
I'm getting flashbacks from Vietnam, I mean, the Deck.
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Old 21-02-20, 15:24   #232
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To expand on platforming, I think it's a spectrum between totally interactive and uninteractive. A movie or game scene is totally uninteractive, a QTE is more interactive, the reboot's platforming is more interactive, but not enough for me to consider it gameplay. From my point of view, gameplay is made up of two things: consequence and choice. You press a button and something happens in the screen, cause and consequence. It's like a communication between you and the game, you through button presses and the game with audivisuals. You press a button telling the game something, it tells you something back with audiovisuals, you press another button accordingly, and so it goes. Gameplay is also choice, you choose what to do and what not to do, and depending on what you choose to do, the consequence will be different. You do X, X happens on the screen, you do Y, Y happens on the screen. Now if it doesn't matter what you do, it's Y that will happen, then it's not a choice, it's an illusion of choice. And games transmit that through challenge, you fail or succeed and the game communicates accordingly. And I feel that the reboot's platforming is like that, it doesn't matter what you do, the consequence is always success, your fails don't have fail as a consequence, so your choices don't matter. To be fair, there's a little bit of chance for fail, and that's the only thing that makes it not be on the same level of a QTE, but it's close. And another thing is: choices need to be informed, otherwise they aren't really choices. And with platforming that's inconsistent, you're not making informed choices, since you don't know if a jump will reach or not, the game's random in that respect.
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Old 21-02-20, 16:14   #233
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Because level design is Art Direction, ...
It really isn`t.
Art Direction defines the visuals of a game, Level Design builds the world around gameplay mechanics and is in charge of using assets properly.

Imo you made solid points for why you think TR2013`s Level Design is flawed.

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I don't think the games look extremely bad. They look bad, but not extremely so. And they only look half good because the graphics are technically good, because art direction is bad.
You always take it to the extreme.
It`s quite a difference between saying "I don`t like the art direction" and saying "the art direction is bad".

The former acknowledges art is subjective, the later is judgemental about someone`s work.

Just because some art doesn`t speak to you, it doesn`t mean it`s bad work.
I know tons of music, games, paintings, movies I don`t like, but I am aware they are actually good work.

Did I like TR2013`s art direction?
Not really. It aims to be mostly dark and gritty, and that`s not what I want from TR. But it succeeds in delivering the mood it wants to create.

Did I like RotTR`s art direction?
Not really, because I think picking Siberia as main location for TR is a bad choice to begin with. Doesn`t play to my taste. But again, it succeeded in delivering the cold, isolated atmosphere it aimed for.

Did I like SotTR`s art direction?
Better than the others, but still, not really.
The jungle is a more natural fit for TR, but they had more emphasis on "survive the hostile environment" than "appreciate the beautiful scenery".
But again, the design delivered on it`s own intention.

So, three cases where I am not a fan of the art direction, but that`s down to my own taste and my expectations of TR in general.
But the art direction itself is absolutely fine.
Plus, despite not meeting my taste, there were a couple of great sceneries in all games.

Last edited by EchoTR; 21-02-20 at 16:16.
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Old 21-02-20, 17:38   #234
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Originally Posted by EchoTR View Post
You always take it to the extreme.
I don't think I do. I try not to. I even said it's not extremely bad.
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Originally Posted by EchoTR View Post
It`s quite a difference between saying "I don`t like the art direction" and saying "the art direction is bad".

The former acknowledges art is subjective, the later is judgemental about someone`s work.
I acknokledge that my ways of judging art are subjective. I look at how generic/unique it is, how creative it is and how expressive it is. But I know those are not universal ways of judging art, there is no universal way. I still think you can judge art as more or less artistic, and I think TReboot's art is soulless, made not out of personal artistry, but art on a leash (like the entirety of TReboot) made to please the most people possible and thus diluted, "safe", "sanitized".
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it succeeds in delivering the mood it wants to create.
And here you are, giving another parametr to which yu can judge art. And I don't think TReboot entirely achieved the mood it wanted.
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it succeeded in delivering the cold, isolated atmosphere it aimed for.
I'd agree that tiny parts of it did, but mostly don't.
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they had more emphasis on "survive the hostile environment"
And I think they didn't pull it off other than at the very beginning of TR2013.
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Plus, despite not meeting my taste, there were a couple of great sceneries in all games.
I saw nothing pretty in the two games I played. Or at least not pretty enough for me to praise. It's all ugly to me.
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Old 21-02-20, 20:27   #235
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I did not said one bad thing either so your point?
I mean we here talking about locations and you out of sudden came with this for no reason.
means u have no respect for from LC's roots. likely hardly played the classic without tossing it in the bin 30 minutes into game.
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Old 21-02-20, 20:47   #236
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means u have no respect for from LC's roots. likely hardly played the classic without tossing it in the bin 30 minutes into game.
Are you ok? Never played the classics at all nor did I said anything negative about them. All I did on this forum was talking about reboot universe and defending it when I felt it was the case.
I see that you are seeking drama so bye bye.
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Old 21-02-20, 22:21   #237
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means u have no respect for from LC's roots. likely hardly played the classic without tossing it in the bin 30 minutes into game.
What’s this ‘LC’s roots’ you’re talking about? Y’all trash the reboots every 5 minutes. Than y’all need to tolerate some criticism towards the Classics.

I, as a Classic fan, have problems with fan-favorite titles like TRII and TRIII. And I express my dislike towards them. Am I not a Classic fan? I am, surely.
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Old 21-02-20, 23:06   #238
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I don't think I do. I try not to. I even said it's not extremely bad.
Let me put it like this ...
I think we actually agree on most things TR.
Yet your posts often give me an itch to reply and defend the reboot, even though that`s not really the position I want to take.
I am just not a fan of the classic=white, reboot=black thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulojr_mam View Post
And here you are, giving another parametr to which yu can judge art. And I don't think TReboot entirely achieved the mood it wanted.

I'd agree that tiny parts of it did, but mostly don't.
...
I saw nothing pretty in the two games I played. Or at least not pretty enough for me to praise. It's all ugly to me.
Imo judging art by it`s ability to deliver on it`s own premise is not a bad starting point when trying to be objective (ye, in the end it`s still subjective, but maybe a bit more viable than general judgements without any base but taste). If a heavy metal songs evokes agression it kinda reached it`s goal, no matter what I think about it.

TR2013 wanted to be dark, moody, close to horror.
Imo it did well on that.
The caves and cultist stuff were eerie, the first wolves encounter felt threatening, climbing the radio tower was vertigo-inducing, dropping into that blood river was appropriately gross, the stealth section in the foggy wood felt dangerous and spooky.
(I didn`t play it in 5 years, I hope that`s actually stuff from 2013...)

If we were talking about establishing the new Lara as a character, I`d say they mostly failed in delivering on their own premise.


In terms of pretty ... the opening, when you leave the first cave on 2013 and find yourself on the cliffs, stormy red sky, shipwrecks ... I recall that as pretty, along with a couple of other scenes.
But that`s one of the cases where I actually agree, I want TR to be way more focussed on beautiful scenes, the reboots didn`t have enough of that, especially 1+2.
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Old Today, 09:06   #239
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For some reason many people like the classical iconic TR elements (like shorts, dual pistols, etc.). The most of cosplayers also prefer the classical Lara for some reason. So, if the latest reboot is so successful, and no one needs the classical Lara anymore - then, why do we see the opposite reaction?

And why do you think both interests cannot be combined? We already had a very good try to do so in TR Legend in the past. And I'm sure the most of the fans understand that we cannot get back 100% of the original. But at least we can try to influence the franchise owners to show more respect for the classics. And I am absolutely convinced that the return of some classical iconic elements to the series will only raise the success of the series. Just like it happened with DOOM (2016) after DOOM 3 gone too far from its origins.

We also have great examples of financially successful (and warmly welcomed by fans) remakes - Resident Evil series for example.

Therefore, fans of the classics really have some strong arguments. And I'm sure that Square Enix should think carefully about their position and future of the series.
you’re so wrong
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Old Today, 13:23   #240
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you’re so wrong
He's right, though.
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