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Old 29-08-19, 00:15   #41
aquaflute
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Originally Posted by LateRaider View Post
- the transition from arthurian myth to norse myth is breakneck speed and comes out of nowhere (lara: what the hell is avalon? natla: it's helheim from norse mythology lol)
You didn't specifically say this, but I have a huge issue with this point and a much bigger related issue that is present in all LAU games: the rather unnecessary and sometimes outright insulting attempt to link all cultures together.

In all these games, they gave you this narrative that all cultures are linked together by some pre-civilization (which are always based on western myths): in Legend it was assumed that King Arthur legend repeats itself in other cultures; in TRA Richard believed all cultures were based on Atlantis; and in TRU, which is the worst offender IMO, you find Norse ruins and artifacts all over the world, so there's no Avalon, no Xibalba, no Bhogavati, everything fundamentally is Norse in this game. While I understand these games are developed by people with majority from western backgrounds, and I can accept that western culture is more dominant in these games. To suggest some versions of western civilization is the foundation for many other cultures half a world away is outright ridiculous.

In Underworld, not only do you find artifacts related to Thor in places where they should not be at all (Thailand? Mexico?), they outright place Thor statues in those places in your face . In Legend, at least they still tried to be respectful to different cultures, so it's explained that it's the same kind of myth structure, but different cultures have different versions of it. This is not that far of a stretch because certain themes do repeat in civilizations. But here in TRU when you place Norse ruins, Norse runes, Norse artifacts and Norse statues all in places they have no business to be, it became a huge disrespect to any local myth and culture IMO. This time around, the "proto-civilization" is not ambiguous, it took shape in Norse mythology, and somehow that version of the myth became the prototype for all other versions. I guess the short development cycle leaves a lot of things unrefined, cultural consideration being one of them unfortunately.
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Old 29-08-19, 10:56   #42
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Norse, norse, norse. Where’s my nose?
Thor, Thor, Thor;
Richard, Richard, Richard;
Avalon, Helheim, Whatever...
I summon ye, in search of an answer
to..............
*drum rolls*
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Old 31-08-19, 02:03   #43
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Is this really at all necessary? The game is already bashed in every other sub forum and thread whenever it comes up, and goodness knows we have had thousands of threads on the TRU section about how much it is disliked/did something wrong.
How is it any different to appreciation threads?
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Old 31-08-19, 17:17   #44
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Originally Posted by aquaflute View Post
You didn't specifically say this, but I have a huge issue with this point and a much bigger related issue that is present in all LAU games: the rather unnecessary and sometimes outright insulting attempt to link all cultures together.

In all these games, they gave you this narrative that all cultures are linked together by some pre-civilization (which are always based on western myths): in Legend it was assumed that King Arthur legend repeats itself in other cultures; in TRA Richard believed all cultures were based on Atlantis; and in TRU, which is the worst offender IMO, you find Norse ruins and artifacts all over the world, so there's no Avalon, no Xibalba, no Bhogavati, everything fundamentally is Norse in this game. While I understand these games are developed by people with majority from western backgrounds, and I can accept that western culture is more dominant in these games. To suggest some versions of western civilization is the foundation for many other cultures half a world away is outright ridiculous.

In Underworld, not only do you find artifacts related to Thor in places where they should not be at all (Thailand? Mexico?), they outright place Thor statues in those places in your face . In Legend, at least they still tried to be respectful to different cultures, so it's explained that it's the same kind of myth structure, but different cultures have different versions of it. This is not that far of a stretch because certain themes do repeat in civilizations. But here in TRU when you place Norse ruins, Norse runes, Norse artifacts and Norse statues all in places they have no business to be, it became a huge disrespect to any local myth and culture IMO. This time around, the "proto-civilization" is not ambiguous, it took shape in Norse mythology, and somehow that version of the myth became the prototype for all other versions. I guess the short development cycle leaves a lot of things unrefined, cultural consideration being one of them unfortunately.
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Old 01-09-19, 12:26   #45
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How is it any different to appreciation threads?
It's different because appreciation threads are often made for games that do not get enough appreciation , whether on their own or in comparison to other games . You could , for instance , create an appreciation thread for Chronicles , very few appreciate this game around here so it wouldn't seem bizarre to open a thread reciting its strengths and looking for more fans of this game .

Underworld on the other hand ? exactly what Victor said : bashed , unappreciated , disliked and torn apart on every possible occasion ever since 2008 . An "UNappreciation thread" for a game that got miles more hate than love for over a decade is indeed pointless and such a huge overkill . Imagine an "AOD hate thread" , lol.
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Old 01-09-19, 16:31   #46
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I can't believe so many people hate Underworld, I actually loved it (specially Xbox 360 Version) sadly I might never experience it again for a loooong time since my 360 is dead and so is my PS3. I miss Underworld.

The only flaws I found within the game that made lose enjoyment: I think the animations are bad plus it should've been a longer game and DLC should have been there FROM THE BEGINNING for every player from every console.
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Old 29-09-19, 12:53   #47
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I always found the community severe about Underworld choice to focus on Norse Mythology. After all, all TR games have the right to focus on every mythologies they want, that is their purpose. Why this game has no right to focus on Norse mythology, and TR4 has the right for Egypt, TR'13 on Yamatai, etc... ? Maybe it is even wrong to have two entire games (TRL and TRU) on the same mythology actually.
However I understand we were eager for more at the end of Legend about King Arthur mythology. It seems not deep enough and the way Underworld throw it all in one cutscene and two words at the very start of the game... This is indeed wrong and clunky.
The game should at least start with one level all about Celtic culture and made a better transition (if it is even possible, what a task) to the Norse mythology.

My ideal reconstruction of Underworld levels :

Level 1 : Scotland
Blend all the medieval stuff from Croft Manor and Beneath the Ashes, on a beautiful place reminiscent to the one from the Lost Artifact.

Level 2 : Mediterranean Sea
As we know it minus the ship part.

Level 3 : Thailand
As we know it.

Level 4 : Mexico
As we know it.

Interlude : Andaman Sea.
As we know it + the ship part from the first level.

Level 5 : Jan Mayen / Arctic Sea
All together with the scrapped hub section in the exterior with the polar bears + Lara's Shadow.

Last edited by Chamayoo; 29-09-19 at 12:56.
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Old 29-09-19, 13:14   #48
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Because in Legend, we spent the entire game searching for the sword pieces and in the end got a little taste of what wielding the sword was. Lara contacted Zip and Alister to arrange a meeting with a Professor. Then she went on her way to research what was the Avalon really about. About Anniversary, I think it is Legend Lara reminiscing her earlier adventure, trying to link those. But Underworld, everyone’s like ‘Ah well, Avalon, Helheim, whatever. Where’s it? I gotta raid some tewmbs.’ At least Legend had the sword pieces hided in local temples and stuff. Thor/Norse statues in Mexico, Thailand, Med Sea???? How did those get there??? Oh, and thralls and Eitr rivers just chilling under Croft Manor for years, nobody noticing........

And nice level-listing. But no, the ship should stay.... And no hubs at Jan Mayen. That level is unbearable as it is........
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Old 29-09-19, 13:28   #49
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Thor/Norse statues in Mexico, Thailand, Med Sea???? How did those get there???
It was intentional. The whole concept of Underworld is that all ancient civilizations have the same underworld , but each civilization has a different myth/name for the same place, Avalon. It was implied in Legend but it was horribly executed here.

One thing I really want to know from Legend is this : Who was this secret organization (not Trinity) that raised kings all over the world to "shape the course of human history" as Alistair said? So much wasted potential...
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Old 29-09-19, 13:32   #50
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It was intentional. The whole concept of Underworld is that all ancient civilizations have the same underworld , but each civilization has a different myth/name for the same place, Avalon. It was implied in Legend but it was horribly executed here.

One thing I really want to know from Legend is this : Who was this secret organization (not Trinity) that raised kings all over the world to "shape the course of human history" as Alistair said? So much wasted potential...
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