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Old 21-06-21, 22:55   #8141
Swiz19
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Originally Posted by jajay119 View Post
Hubs have nothing to do with fetch quests. That's a game design choice and could be done in a linear game as well as an open world one.experience.
Thank you for the distinction. I feel like I see a lot of confusion between 'hubs' and 'side quests' when they really don't have anything to do with each other.

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The hubs in my opinion are just pointless for TR. They are there to give a false sense of exploration. Running all over Paititi or the Geothermal valley to stumble on two or three hidden tombs is not what I'd call exploration.
I think hubs can work well, they just have to be more interestingly designed. I've played rise and Shadow lately and I found a tomb/crypt/side area in each game that I had never discovered before. I was sure I had searched and found everything but clearly there was still areas to discover and I absolutely loved that feeling. It felt authentic. However, the issue came down to those undiscovered areas didn't really contain anything interesting, just more useless documents. Hubs can work if the hubs themselves contain actual puzzles - ones that are more than some stupid rope arrow BS that you solve to reveal new locations or powerful artefacts. If they continue bloating these massive areas with just useless documents, pointless artefacts and items that are just to promote a useless crafting system, then yeah - I'd prefer a more linear design. Both can work well, they just have to be made well.

On the point of side quests, again I think these can work if done well. One issue I had with Rise and Shadow is especially Laras attitude to the side quests. It was all 'how can I help you' instead of being 'how will this help me' which would have made such a difference imo. The white Knight approach really rubbed me the wrong way, and the side quests were designed around that. Again, I still think they could be far more interesting than dumb fetch quests. For example: you speak to a character who tells you a story about their ancestors discovering a lost tomb, and then you actually play a short flashback as the ancestor themselves. That way we can get more lore, character development (that isn't lara croft), feel like we are actually discovering lost history and get a portion of the game set in a different time. Innovative and interesting things like that could and should be done imo. Hell, the things you do in the flashback could even alter gameplay elements for Laras time frame if she ends up discovering the tomb herself.

Last edited by Swiz19; 21-06-21 at 23:05.
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Old 21-06-21, 23:11   #8142
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The hubs themselves aren't an issue. It's what they choose to do with the hubs. They were really just an excuse for collect-a-thon gameplay.
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Old 22-06-21, 02:40   #8143
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The hubs themselves aren't an issue. It's what they choose to do with the hubs. They were really just an excuse for collect-a-thon gameplay.
I do think the hubs are a problem. It means you end up with vast areas with very little in them and lots of areas that use development time but many or most players skip them. I think you get far more replayability from a level based system where you can replay individual story sections.
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Old 22-06-21, 02:58   #8144
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I do think the hubs are a problem. It means you end up with vast areas with very little in them and lots of areas that use development time but many or most players skip them. I think you get far more replayability from a level based system where you can replay individual story sections.
So your problem is that the hubs weren't better utilised? Agreed. But that doesn't mean hubs are bad, it just means Rise/Shadows hubs just weren't very good.
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Old 22-06-21, 04:13   #8145
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I just want to apologize if my posts came off as harsh earlier today, I just feel strongly about some aspects of the classics.
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Old 22-06-21, 04:53   #8146
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Ok maybe I'm the only one to think that Soviet Installation, Lost City (and Flooded Archive) are really good hubs.
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Old 22-06-21, 05:51   #8147
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I just want to apologize if my posts came off as harsh earlier today, I just feel strongly about some aspects of the classics.
I haven't read every post in this thread, and so I don't know which posts you're talking about, but I doubt your posts were the worst that this forum has seen; you get a lot of posts which comes across in a bad way, sometimes it's intentional and sometimes it's not. I'm ashamed of the some of the stuff that I've said on this forum over the years, and I know I'm not the only one. It's big of you to apologise.
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Old 22-06-21, 14:50   #8148
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I'd rather get a Evil Within 2 style openworld: a completely hostile, metroidvania-driven and stimulating map with not many points of interest but where all of them matter.
Hubs feel more like detachable chunks of content that don't really mean anything in the gran scheme of things. Better an invisible yet meaningful corridor than irrelevant sidetracks.
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Old 22-06-21, 14:56   #8149
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In other news, Silent Hill fans were sent crazy by tweets that suggested a silent Hill announcement. They certainly got one. Konami have announced a new Silent Hill.... Skateboard.


We thought we were hard done to as TR fans. Is that better or worse than a cookbook?

Just goes to show things could always be worse.
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Old 22-06-21, 15:18   #8150
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I do not know why people got so worked up about that. It was the Konami merch store, outright stating they were teasing an incoming merch drop, and people went nuts thinking it was a game? They sell Metal Gear merch too, guess that means Metal Gear is coming back y'all! Then there was the whole Abandoned situation where people were harassing this small indie dev team convinced it was Kojima reviving Silent Hills, even when they stated multiple times they had no affiliation with Kojima, Konami, or Silent Hill. Eventually the head of the team had to make a video showing who he was just to convince people they really were just this small team making their own game. I've said it many times before but Kojima would have made an awful Silent Hill game, PT wasn't even that good, I'll never understand why people poop themselves over it to this day. The mans the least subtle creator in the industry and you want him to make a game for a series that's all about being subtle? It's not happening now and would have been terrible anyway, move on!
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