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Old 03-02-20, 15:28   #11
LUIS2289
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Originally Posted by fallenangle View Post
LUIS2289 -I bet you like scan lines too. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

Problem is that what you describe as the PS TR classic experience is not what many others experienced and what many others hated. Argentina and a couple of other S.American countries apparently use(d) PAL-N and NTSC-M capable TVs - very unusual in that if it is a RGB SCART capable one too you can play NTSC games at 480i/60Hz RGB. That's the best picture quality you can get from a SD display.

In the UK/EU to be able to do that you had to import the US NTSC version of the game and either mod the PS or use a boot disc like PS-X. That also assumes the TV was NTSC compliant (most were) and supported RGB SCART too.

Not all did, a lot of gamers here played their early PS games in 576i/50Hz via an RF connection ie. to the aerial socket. If the game was not PAL optimised (many were not) it would display bordered and have slower and therefore less smooth animation. That was their 'classic' PS game experience.

The result was not pretty and even though AV Composite was better and RGB SCART capable TVs with NTSC 60Hz support quickly became ubiquitous, as described, you still had to import the NTSC version of a game to get the best 'classic' display experience.

Most gamers did not ever get to see that.

Then you have to consider the later Playstations as well: consoles like the PS2 that directly supported original PS games providing the universal option of using Component YPbPr. That is as good as RGB SCART for SD when TV settings are adjusted properly. The PS2 also offers certain display enhancements for PS games which were a definite benefit in some cases but barely noticeable in others. Later Playstation consoles add HDMI display capability into the mix. That's all genuine console experience, potentially far better looking than when the games were first released. But then the display issues of the flat screens that replaced CRTs has to be considered - many displayed SD interlaced games terribly.

Even with the PAL DC, the only games console I know of that specifically supports PAL60 and not NTSC, you still had to use a RGB SCART cable and many casual users did not. Its VGA capability was used by even less worldwide.

Even you are not getting the original console experience. You're using an emulator and with filters (ePSXe?) - not exactly authentic.

My point is the so called 'classic' console experience of TR means different things depending on where you live, your system hardware and cabling.

On PC you get consistency of experience and whilst I agree resolution is not the be all and end all, 1280x1024 60Hz on a decent monitor is better looking than any console version displaying interlaced in lower resolution. Of course you can adjust the gamma of the PC version to give you a murky, more genuinely console version experience............. if you're a masochist.

I'm using BeettlePSX Core in Retroarch with Vulkan renderer, it comes with tons of shaders, none of what I use have scanlines. I will post some screens later.
For the Dreamcast version im using Flycast.
I forget to say that I'm playing both version of the game.

Why I'm also playing the PS1 version again? a lot of reasons, the perspective correction feature, the perfect widescreen hack and shaders.
Sadly the dreamcast emulator widescreen hack is not as perfect as the PS1one.

I can't really tell about the techy side, the Playstation was kind of a luxury here back then let alone the Dreamcast, when I said about original experience I was referring to the PS and not the DC, wich I didn't get to play it. Ours consoles were able to play pirated disks, this was very common here and in others third world countries. Most games and all the consoles were hacked to work in all regions, I even remember a game that was black and white for this reason.

The TV that I was using was this.

I know that in terms of visual experience, "mileage may vary", but I think there is one premise that is always true for everyone: CRT TVs outputs analogic low definition image, low resolution doesn't look the same in old TVs and modern LCDs.

About the darkness level, I don't know why a lot of people play with high levels of brightness, of course is easier but the original TR experience was meant to be dark, specially since the third one, they tweaked the lighting so they could make dark levels, I remember one reviewer complaining on how dark the game was specially in London levels, I guess that those who played it for the for first time in the PC were able to set the gamma and they get used to that.


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I'd love to see pics!
I Will upload later!
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Old 03-02-20, 20:08   #12
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I'd love to see pics!
Agree! The more we see the differences, the more chance some hardcore fans will mod them into the PC version
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Old 04-02-20, 00:21   #13
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Here are some examples. Showing some filters and without any filter.
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Old 04-02-20, 13:24   #14
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Interesting.

Also interesting that comment about Argentina being a third world country. Not how I've ever thought or think about it. Is that really how Argentines see themselves?

It is now considered a 'developing' country although back in the mid 1990s, the specific time I suppose we're talking about as the classic TR period, I understand things were very different.
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Old 06-02-20, 23:10   #15
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I'm curious: Do you experience music and cutscene sounds starting too late or ending too early? Because that was a huge issue that I had when I played the PAL Dreamcast version on original hardware. It's pretty much the only thing in that version that is worse than in the PC version.
Wanted to chime in on this. I've recently acquired a Dreamcast and naturally have this game for it. I do experience the same issue (NTSC model here) with audio often starting too late, or getting cut off too early. PC version never did this. At first I thought it might be the lens or the CD had big scratches, but neither are the case after gently cleaning both of them as the issue persists (CD looks fine). It was really hard to find any info about this online.

Notably it happens often with the jumping sequence in Angkor Wat when Von Croy speaks, and also during the chatter at the beginning of the race where the track starts late and cuts off in the middle of him saying "two.." at the very end. At other times, the audio plays correctly, but it really depends on the specific track it's playing, at least in my experience.
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Old 08-02-20, 10:19   #16
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Originally Posted by LUIS2289 View Post
Here are some examples. Showing some filters and without any filter.
Blurring is used in modern games too for similar reasons. It kinda "fakes" details and hides graphics "errors". Best example is The Order 1866 or Hellblade. They even add noise, so the whole screen has a cinematic feel...

I see why you prefer to play this way. This screenshot looks awesome. But i wouldn't play anything on any older consoles.
Blurring a high quality image with a good shader is different than playing on very low resolution, no AA, no AF, bad texture filtering and other limitations. PS1 TR games are full of shimmering and aliasing. And the render distance is lower, textures are lower quality, etc.

Many people prefer the high contrast of PS1 games too. But wasn't that caused by limitations? The blacks are crushed, there are no gray levels. And bright parts are way strongly glowing too.

PC version feels like jumping to higher dynamic range, so you have more contrast levels and colors. We had an old CRT monitor when we played TR4 back then and i remember that we had to play in a dark room to see everything properly. So i wouldn't say it's too bright...
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Old 24-02-20, 15:41   #17
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Originally Posted by Shing View Post
Blurring is used in modern games too for similar reasons. It kinda "fakes" details and hides graphics "errors". Best example is The Order 1866 or Hellblade. They even add noise, so the whole screen has a cinematic feel...

I see why you prefer to play this way. This screenshot looks awesome. But i wouldn't play anything on any older consoles.
Blurring a high quality image with a good shader is different than playing on very low resolution, no AA, no AF, bad texture filtering and other limitations. PS1 TR games are full of shimmering and aliasing. And the render distance is lower, textures are lower quality, etc.

Many people prefer the high contrast of PS1 games too. But wasn't that caused by limitations? The blacks are crushed, there are no gray levels. And bright parts are way strongly glowing too.

PC version feels like jumping to higher dynamic range, so you have more contrast levels and colors. We had an old CRT monitor when we played TR4 back then and i remember that we had to play in a dark room to see everything properly. So i wouldn't say it's too bright...

I wouldn't call it blurring the image, yes there is some blurring but the shader actually is more complex, it uses three passes and changes a lot how the darks and the lighting looks entirely, the results are pretty good looking and quite sharp honestly.

Look I made this short clip from my cellphone (compare PC version here), levels in the Dreamcast version look much more realistic than its PC counterpart. The scene when Von Cry get stuck inside the Iris sphere looks totally different in the DC and PC version.

As other user said before, in PC the bump mapping is somewhat bad implemented or buggy, if there is volumetric fog they will stand out and look bad. The Dreamcast instead everything looks good and harmonious.

Retroarch shaders are really making my retro gaming great again, specially old classic Lara, I can't wait to reach the Cairo levels to see how they look in this version.

Last edited by LUIS2289; 24-02-20 at 17:18.
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Old 24-02-20, 16:00   #18
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Wow, there is a lot of difference between the PC and DC version. I honestly don't know why, but i think it's because the PC hardware it wasn't so good as today and couldn't support it. Maybe a patch could fix the bump mapping in the PC version.
Can you clarify if the DC Version has some other effects? Like echoes and footprints from the PS1 version?
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Old 25-02-20, 00:05   #19
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.
Can you clarify if the DC Version has some other effects? Like echoes and footprints from the PS1 version?
I'm afraid there aren't more DC exclusive goodies, everything that is mentioned here were already known features, only that now is avaible for emulation and can be experienced by those who didn't play that version, and the reason for the hype
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Old 25-02-20, 02:34   #20
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Oh, that's a shame, thank you for the info anyway
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