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Old 25-11-20, 20:02   #481
LNSNHGTDS
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Originally Posted by jajay119 View Post
A fanbase of a series that is as long going as TR is and with as many different iterations will have different expectations. That is just a given. One group of people having certain expectations that differ from others across many different products and situations is not toxic. It is logical and reasonable. That's the whole point of mediums like this forum - for people from all backgrounds and experiences to discuss their opinions.

People who come here and do the whole 'this fandom is so toxic' honestly need to take a step back and just involve themselves in the conversations that appeal to them. You dont need to be involved in everything- especially if it is going to somehow offend you.

At the end of the day a lot of what people say here comes from love and there isnt really any malice a lot of the time. People will still try the game. People will still buy games they dont think are 100% for them. It's not like the Silent hill fanbase who actively boycotted their own franchise's release and tried to get it to bomb because an HD remaster wasnt to their taste. I've only ever seen people get that pent up in the TR fan base over the Rise Exclusivity and I feel that was somehow more justified (I bought it twice in the end btw before anyone comes for me ) some Silent Hill forums are so hostile to different opinions that they were infamous for bullying people out. Whilst discussions here can get heated, normally for petty personal drama, I wouldnt say anyone would be ganged up on and forced out for not liking the reboot/classics for example.

There are far worse fanbases out there.
While I can sometimes do the whole "the fanbase is toxic" thing and sometimes I do feel nostalgia and personal bias, among other factors, sometimes clouds people's vision, overall agree with your point.. I don't think it can be argued that any of us don't love Lara, whatever iteration(s) of her each of us loves.

About the "you should be happy" argument I don't think anyone should forced to be happy for a type of game they don't think they'll enjoy just because Classic Lara features in it but at the same time I think it's way to early to have any opinion on it because it's way too early and we literally don't know anything about it other than the fact that it's free and for mobile phones.
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Old 26-11-20, 04:01   #482
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Well the like to dislike ratio is better on gamespots trailer, but the general public is not happy that classic Lara is only in a mobile game.

https://youtu.be/D3GRBHmvIss
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Old 26-11-20, 04:15   #483
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Attempts to give depth to Classic Lara's loosely-defined personality were made ever since as early as Last Revelation with the updated biography and a much more fleshed out story compared to previous entries. Then they went a step further in Angel of Darkness though as far as I can tell fans don't necessarily agree if it was an improvement or not. What we got in Crystal's original trilogy is the closest to a more fleshed variation of Classic Lara so far. She's literally the perfect middle ground between Core's version of Classic Lara and Survivor Lara and I'd say she fits in the modern definition of what a #deep™ character is. If the family drama is too distractive for some people then we have Guardian of Light and Temple of Osiris where Lara is on an adventure for the sake of being on an adventure and even though the story isn't really the focus here, Lara's characteristic personality shines through. Even Relic Run and GO could fall into this category.

So yeah, we did have a fleshed out Lara by 1999 with more clear goals, motives, a more defined personality and a backstory as well as flashbacks to earlier events in her life that shaped her up into becoming who we know her as.

My point is, the current trend and interest is towards more grounded and emotional characters and that's why casuals and critics and really anyone other than the vocal minority of Core-only fanatics actually like Survivor Lara and the more grounded approach in her characterization. And to be clear no, for most people that doesn't necessarily mean that they prefer her over Classic Lara or that if they do they automatically hate Classic Lara.

Unless the trend shifts back to people being interested in more flawless characters with fewer uncertain or emotional moments I don't see Classic Lara permanently replacing Survivor Lara because the later's games still sell and even though I'm positive we will see more Classic Lara elements being reintroduced for the rebooted games I don't think we'll get very far past the LAU level of sassyess and campiness.


First I said when games started to become CINEMATIC, like when the first TR2013 was released that gave RLara an interesting origins story.

TRLAU, that is basically a very shallow type of indepth characterization.
They showed her different emotions because technology has advanced; she was basically no more than the Angelina Jolie Lara Croft iteration; so very shallow in writing.


Lara in AOD, if I want to describe her, someone who is going through a trauma but who has suddenly become a big **itch walking around the streets. Is giving a smile, or showing an interest in a new man called depth in characterization????
Being in the 2000's, you would expect something super different and interesting, but her character was as shallow as all the previous ones.

I can agree about TR4 and tR5, but still, there was no depth involved at all.
Just the advancement in technology which allowed for very few things to be explained in a better way, but still her character needed much more analysis.

And what makes Classic Lara still stand out is because she seems one of those people you look at and feel a mystery about her.

She is a competitor.
If the reboot had classic Lara in all her traits for example, part of her character would allow her to approach a problem in a calmer manner.
Scared, for sure, unsure as well; tearing possibly; but never shouting or sobbing like a baby or calling for rescue or even showing others that she needed help in the first place although she might have wanted help.

And the world is full of people who are like this; it is not that complicated; but they chose to scrap all that away and come up with a cry baby who is average in her fighting skills, too serious, doesnt even laugh that much, has no class, swears and is easily manipulated, all which are ANTI-LARA CROFT in my opinion...
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Old 26-11-20, 11:10   #484
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All I'm really getting from this is "waaaah cry baby" and "waaaaay shallow" and "waaaaah nothing like classic Lara" which is a very shallow approach towards AoD Lara, LAU Lara and Survivor Lara at the same time so I don't think you'll ever be satisfied with anything the developers do.
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Old 26-11-20, 14:30   #485
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Avalon is 100% correct
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Old 26-11-20, 15:13   #486
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All I'm really getting from this is "waaaah cry baby" and "waaaaay shallow" and "waaaaah nothing like classic Lara" which is a very shallow approach towards AoD Lara, LAU Lara and Survivor Lara at the same time so I don't think you'll ever be satisfied with anything the developers do.
Because I do not mix storytelling with character analysis or giving depth to a character.

You can have a very wonderful story to tell, the cases like TR4, 5, AOD, TR LAU, but they do not have anything to do with character depth or skilled writing. Not to mention how contradicting the Lara personalities seem between Legend, TRA and Underworld. At least this is how I see it, there is no logical reasoning behind how she acts sometimes except that it is a decision the developers chose without giving any reason why it should happen that way and given that we supposedly know how Lara behaves or should behave, she does something completely contradicting and out of her character; maybe they thought this could be a twist to the plot, but that ended ruining the plot as a whole.
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Old 26-11-20, 15:27   #487
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Because I do not mix storytelling with character analysis or giving depth to a character.

You can have a very wonderful story to tell, the cases like TR4, 5, AOD, TR LAU, but they do not have anything to do with character depth or skilled writing. Not to mention how contradicting the Lara personalities seem between Legend, TRA and Underworld. At least this is how I see it, there is no logical reasoning behind how she acts sometimes except that it is a decision the developers chose without giving any reason why it should happen that way and given that we supposedly know how Lara behaves or should behave, she does something completely contradicting and out of her character; maybe they thought this could be a twist to the plot, but that ended ruining the plot as a whole.
Okay this part I can agree with.

It's just the way you presented before / the way I read it came off as generalizing based on very specific story instances.

I don't think Survivor Lara is a crybaby or illogical and shouting all the time for example. She can be this but likewise there are also situations where she's collected and does her best to stay on top of situations. The way she deals with Konstantin comes to mind. He actively teases her about Jonah and Richard but she calmly just shoots him in the face and lets him die.

I don't think AoD Lara comes off as a bitch either, unless you specifically select the replies in conversation that make her a bitch, but that depends on each player.

There's obviously room for improvement I'm not denying that bit I don't think Lara's depictions so far were as shallow as described.
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Old 26-11-20, 16:08   #488
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Okay this part I can agree with.

It's just the way you presented before / the way I read it came off as generalizing based on very specific story instances.

I don't think Survivor Lara is a crybaby or illogical and shouting all the time for example. She can be this but likewise there are also situations where she's collected and does her best to stay on top of situations. The way she deals with Konstantin comes to mind. He actively teases her about Jonah and Richard but she calmly just shoots him in the face and lets him die.

I don't think AoD Lara comes off as a bitch either, unless you specifically select the replies in conversation that make her a bitch, but that depends on each player.

There's obviously room for improvement I'm not denying that bit I don't think Lara's depictions so far were as shallow as described.
Could be as well, we can agree, they just need to be betterly written.

Your example about how Lara dealt with Konstantine, that was really good.
Yet, back in shadow, she was completely out of her mind when she handed that dagger to Dominguez and how she was very emotional when she met jonah again to tell him what she did; she was so hysterical.

Then again when Rourke was talking to her through the walkie-talkie, telling her about Jonah's death, manipulating her and she easily believed that and what did she do?
She swore, she was super crazy...

It is these contradictions that make this Lara Croft character seem off and poorly written as well.

It is like when the team sat down to write her down there was no clear Character biography about her.

They just seem to swing her emotions according to circumstances because they want to force us to sympathize with her nothing more, and that is why the emotions are not as genuine as they should be

She contradicts herself with the way she acts for no obvious reason which makes her seem like she has an identity crisis
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Old 26-11-20, 16:17   #489
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Well Lara was doing everything she could to stop Trinity and she failed. Not only did Dominguez steal the dagger from Lara, she didnt just hand it over, she also caused a massive Tsunami over Cozumel killing hundreds upon thousands also bare in mind, shed literally just witnessed a child being killed because of her. Shes angry at Trinity and herself what she let happen, shes upset because of the devastation shes caused, shes scared because shes just found out shes started an apocalypse.

Im pretty sure if any of us did that, wed be slightly hysterical too.
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Old 26-11-20, 16:23   #490
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I’m pretty sure if any of us did that, we’d be slightly hysterical too.
This right here is the point I'm trying to make.

They're portrating Lara, or at least trying to, in a more relatable manner.

The whole point with Survivor Lara is to have less polished and more humane reactions because that's what people apparently wanna see.

Whether that's a good or bad thing or something we like or not is a whole other topic, but they're trying to make Lara look like she's going from a regular girl to a hardened adventurer. That's why there was initially no manor and no money and working at a bar and no grand college studies, because super rich Queen that uses her wealth to become an adventurer is not something the average person can relate with.
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