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Old 06-07-19, 15:27   #11
BrokenMirror
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Probably will all the rushed things across the AOD, the Eidos timing and all that, they (Core) didn't even think about to work that part of the segment properly... Just think about it, the Putai movie that was "erased" from the game... other levels that could give more information.

I don't know, just a guess
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Old 06-07-19, 15:44   #12
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A different team was working on the cutscenes as far as I recall, so they were not rushed as much as the rest of the game. Still though I believe the picture was just there to show new players that Werner and Lara knew each other. They probably never gave much of a thought about the picture itself, just quickly made it to make it look like they were friends.
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Old 06-07-19, 15:55   #13
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It would make perfect sense if it were a picture of Lara and Jean Yves...since Lara and Jean were good friends after all, and neither one of them stole from or tried to kill the other one.

Nah, it's yet another example of retconning in the original TR timeline. Core was infamously good at it (I get it, they didn't think people would pay attention or care - which, of course, was dead wrong. ).
The picture exists only to say "look, they used to be friends; isn't it sad that he's dead now?" - even though we literally never saw Lara and Werner as friends/colleagues in any TR game. He briefly mentored her, then they became rivals. There is seemingly no period in that timeline when they could have worked together and had this picture taken.

Let's recap:
  1. Von Croy brings teenage Lara to Cambodia on a tour. Tour ends badly after Lara and Von Croy get in a fight, and VC is injured.
    Presumably, Lara sends someone to help VC. But who knows, there's really no implication one way or the other. \_(ツ)_/ Maybe she said "deuces" and left him to get out by himself, and that's why the two are so salty in every subsequent interaction. We don't know.
  2. Lara steals the Iris from Von Croy
    When VC realizes the intruder is Lara, his colleague says "your past comes back to haunt you once more." So uh, not a jolly recollection. Implies that Lara and VC have not been friendly since the Cambodia outing.
  3. Lara and Von Croy go head-to-head in Egypt
    Lara references their past when she ask him if it's his leg "causing the resentment." Nothing rosy there. VC goes full evil god, kidnaps her friend, but has an uncharacteristic change of heart at the end of the game when he tries to save her from the collapsing pyramid.
  4. Von Croy attempts to recover Lara (or her remains) from the collapsed pyramid
    VC has completely flipped at this point and is 100% team Lara. We assume he feels guilty/responsible for what happened (?), even though he and Lara have a history of exclusively being assholes to each other. So maybe it's less guilt/responsibility and more I'm-the-better-person complex.
  5. Lara escapes the pyramid without Von Croy's help, he asks her to come visit
    VC hounds Lara to come visit him. She ignores him for a long time before finally caving.
  6. Von Croy is murdered in the middle of his and Lara's visit, Lara spends most of AoD looking for his killer
    They're back to being assholes to each other during their meeting, which is historically accurate for these two, until VC gets killed and Lara starts referring to him as "my good friend" to everyone. Maybe this is HER version of the I'm-the-better-person complex(!)?
Tried to keep the list canonical (besides my comments). So where can this picture event fit in? Pretty much no where, but if you had to in the least retconny way possible, I'd say right after event #1. Let's say Lara helped VC get out of the Iris. He hurt his leg but was mostly OK. This picture was taken right after the expedition at an incredibly sandy beach in Cambodia. Lara has on the wrong outfit but oh well.

Honestly though, I think the picture can only be taken at face value. It didn't really happen, it's only to illustrate Lara and VC's prior relationship, as Caesum said.
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Old 06-07-19, 16:00   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesum View Post
A different team was working on the cutscenes as far as I recall, so they were not rushed as much as the rest of the game. Still though I believe the picture was just there to show new players that Werner and Lara knew each other. They probably never gave much of a thought about the picture itself, just quickly made it to make it look like they were friends.
Which they certainly should've gave a thought about this picture but other than that, I really don't seem to care about how the sequence would get applied for AOD as a fan!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapu View Post
It would make perfect sense if it were a picture of Lara and Jean Yves...since Lara and Jean were good friends after all, and neither one of them stole from or tried to kill the other one.

Nah, it's yet another example of retconning in the original TR timeline. Core was infamously good at it (I get it, they didn't think people would pay attention or care - which, of course, was dead wrong. ).
The picture exists only to say "look, they used to be friends; isn't it sad that he's dead now?" - even though we literally never saw Lara and Werner as friends/colleagues in any TR game. He briefly mentored her, then they became rivals. There is seemingly no period in that timeline when they could have worked together and had this picture taken.

Let's recap:
  1. Von Croy brings teenage Lara to Cambodia on a tour. Tour ends badly after Lara and Von Croy get in a fight, and VC is injured.
    Presumably, Lara sends someone to help VC. But who knows, there's really no implication one way or the other. \_(ツ)_/ Maybe she said "deuces" and left him to get out by himself, and that's why the two are so salty in every subsequent interaction. We don't know.
  2. Lara steals the Iris from Von Croy
    When VC realizes the intruder is Lara, his colleague says "your past comes back to haunt you once more." So uh, not a jolly recollection. Implies that Lara and VC have not been friendly since the Cambodia outing.
  3. Lara and Von Croy go head-to-head in Egypt
    Lara references their past when she ask him if it's his leg "causing the resentment." Nothing rosy there. VC goes full evil god, kidnaps her friend, but has an uncharacteristic change of heart at the end of the game when he tries to save her from the collapsing pyramid.
  4. Von Croy attempts to recover Lara (or her remains) from the collapsed pyramid
    VC has completely flipped at this point and is 100% team Lara. We assume he feels guilty/responsible for what happened (?), even though he and Lara have a history of exclusively being assholes to each other. So maybe it's less guilt/responsibility and more I'm-the-better-person complex.
  5. Lara escapes the pyramid without Von Croy's help, he asks her to come visit
    VC hounds Lara to come visit him. She ignores him for a long time before finally caving.
  6. Von Croy is murdered in the middle of his and Lara's visit, Lara spends most of AoD looking for his killer
    They're back to being assholes to each other during their meeting, which is historically accurate for these two, until VC gets killed and Lara starts referring to him as "my good friend" to everyone. Maybe this is HER version of the I'm-the-better-person complex(!)?
Tried to keep the list canonical (besides my comments). So where can this picture event fit in? Pretty much no where, but if you had to in the least retconny way possible, I'd say right after event #1. Let's say Lara helped VC get out of the Iris. He hurt his leg but was mostly OK. This picture was taken right after the expedition at an incredibly sandy beach in Cambodia. Lara has on the wrong outfit but oh well.

Honestly though, I think the picture can only be taken at face value. It didn't really happen, it's only to illustrate Lara and VC's prior relationship, as Caesum said.
Now out of everything what you said in your post, sounds very much like they were probably getting themselves into so much fights against each other from TR4 to begin with. And I very much do see that Lara represents a sign of intuitive by telling Morgot Cavier & Karel that Werner was a great friend to her!! by the way, I always have myself the strongest desire to see so much that how very over-ambitious that Core Design have felt so much to finish developing the rest of the AOD trilogy. But unfortunately, it couldn't happen as the screen have went all black right after Eidos was certainly the one who didn't really ANY REASON to ever rush AOD right out of Core Design's door to begin with as that was all of a Hell of a disgrace as always!! And I certainly am very extremely confident that Eidos Interactive will always regret for what they did with AOD every single day. Eidos was really the 1 & only publisher who've highlighted so much as a pure total failure by never realizing that within the early 2000's was certainly the time for them to slow down more with that periodic of time obviously!!
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Old 06-07-19, 18:28   #15
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Jean Yves body/outfit with Von Croy's head.

https://tombraider.fandom.com/wiki/Jean-Yves

Last edited by Reggie; 06-07-19 at 18:30.
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Old 06-07-19, 19:23   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapu View Post
It would make perfect sense if it were a picture of Lara and Jean Yves...since Lara and Jean were good friends after all, and neither one of them stole from or tried to kill the other one.

Nah, it's yet another example of retconning in the original TR timeline. Core was infamously good at it (I get it, they didn't think people would pay attention or care - which, of course, was dead wrong. ).
The picture exists only to say "look, they used to be friends; isn't it sad that he's dead now?" - even though we literally never saw Lara and Werner as friends/colleagues in any TR game. He briefly mentored her, then they became rivals. There is seemingly no period in that timeline when they could have worked together and had this picture taken.

Let's recap:
  1. Von Croy brings teenage Lara to Cambodia on a tour. Tour ends badly after Lara and Von Croy get in a fight, and VC is injured.
    Presumably, Lara sends someone to help VC. But who knows, there's really no implication one way or the other. \_(ツ)_/ Maybe she said "deuces" and left him to get out by himself, and that's why the two are so salty in every subsequent interaction. We don't know.
  2. Lara steals the Iris from Von Croy
    When VC realizes the intruder is Lara, his colleague says "your past comes back to haunt you once more." So uh, not a jolly recollection. Implies that Lara and VC have not been friendly since the Cambodia outing.
  3. Lara and Von Croy go head-to-head in Egypt
    Lara references their past when she ask him if it's his leg "causing the resentment." Nothing rosy there. VC goes full evil god, kidnaps her friend, but has an uncharacteristic change of heart at the end of the game when he tries to save her from the collapsing pyramid.
  4. Von Croy attempts to recover Lara (or her remains) from the collapsed pyramid
    VC has completely flipped at this point and is 100% team Lara. We assume he feels guilty/responsible for what happened (?), even though he and Lara have a history of exclusively being assholes to each other. So maybe it's less guilt/responsibility and more I'm-the-better-person complex.
  5. Lara escapes the pyramid without Von Croy's help, he asks her to come visit
    VC hounds Lara to come visit him. She ignores him for a long time before finally caving.
  6. Von Croy is murdered in the middle of his and Lara's visit, Lara spends most of AoD looking for his killer
    They're back to being assholes to each other during their meeting, which is historically accurate for these two, until VC gets killed and Lara starts referring to him as "my good friend" to everyone. Maybe this is HER version of the I'm-the-better-person complex(!)?
Tried to keep the list canonical (besides my comments). So where can this picture event fit in? Pretty much no where, but if you had to in the least retconny way possible, I'd say right after event #1. Let's say Lara helped VC get out of the Iris. He hurt his leg but was mostly OK. This picture was taken right after the expedition at an incredibly sandy beach in Cambodia. Lara has on the wrong outfit but oh well.

Honestly though, I think the picture can only be taken at face value. It didn't really happen, it's only to illustrate Lara and VC's prior relationship, as Caesum said.
I think her "good friend" stuff in AOD is possibly partly out of guilt, she clearly seems to at least somewhat regret her last interaction with him being a fight.

If I had to throw a bone, I'd guess before VCI as well, they happened to end up on some dig together and either they didn't completely hate each other at the time or put it aside for a photo.
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Old 06-07-19, 21:13   #17
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Maybe between Cambodia and VCI they were merely "friendly" competition to each other, and then by stealing the Irirs Lara broke their relationship for the sake of the artifact. After all, what would Lara choose, the Irirs or a friendship ?
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Old 06-07-19, 21:30   #18
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Maybe between Cambodia and VCI they were merely "friendly" competition to each other, and then by stealing the Irirs Lara broke their relationship for the sake of the artifact. After all, what would Lara choose, the Irirs or a friendship ?
I'd like to imagine a few more things happened in-between.

Even assuming they absolutely hated each other after Cambodia, Lara would probably have needed some sort of further problem with Von Croy to consider breaking into VCI with lethal intent.
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Old 07-07-19, 18:52   #19
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Originally Posted by Samz View Post
I think her "good friend" stuff in AOD is possibly partly out of guilt, she clearly seems to at least somewhat regret her last interaction with him being a fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBog View Post
Maybe between Cambodia and VCI they were merely "friendly" competition to each other, and then by stealing the Irirs Lara broke their relationship for the sake of the artifact. After all, what would Lara choose, the Irirs or a friendship ?


If I had to throw a bone, I'd guess before VCI as well, they happened to end up on some dig together and either they didn't completely hate each other at the time or put it aside for a photo.
Well it looks like that Lara's purpose was to GO AFTER the Iris artifact so she'll just store it right inside of her own storage room where she have stored all the rest of the artifacts she have found before already

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Old 07-07-19, 20:19   #20
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Well it looks like that Lara's purpose was to GO AFTER the Iris artifact so she'll just store it right inside of her own storage room where she have stored all the rest of the artifacts she have found before already
Yeah I know.

But if they were still friends she wouldn't be fine with shooting his employees.
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