www.tombraiderforums.com  

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Tomb Raider Series > Future of Tomb Raider

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 21-06-21, 22:55   #8141
Swiz19
Archaeologist
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jajay119 View Post
Hubs have nothing to do with fetch quests. That's a game design choice and could be done in a linear game as well as an open world one.experience.
Thank you for the distinction. I feel like I see a lot of confusion between 'hubs' and 'side quests' when they really don't have anything to do with each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jajay119 View Post
The hubs in my opinion are just pointless for TR. They are there to give a false sense of exploration. Running all over Paititi or the Geothermal valley to stumble on two or three hidden tombs is not what I'd call exploration.
I think hubs can work well, they just have to be more interestingly designed. I've played rise and Shadow lately and I found a tomb/crypt/side area in each game that I had never discovered before. I was sure I had searched and found everything but clearly there was still areas to discover and I absolutely loved that feeling. It felt authentic. However, the issue came down to those undiscovered areas didn't really contain anything interesting, just more useless documents. Hubs can work if the hubs themselves contain actual puzzles - ones that are more than some stupid rope arrow BS that you solve to reveal new locations or powerful artefacts. If they continue bloating these massive areas with just useless documents, pointless artefacts and items that are just to promote a useless crafting system, then yeah - I'd prefer a more linear design. Both can work well, they just have to be made well.

On the point of side quests, again I think these can work if done well. One issue I had with Rise and Shadow is especially Laras attitude to the side quests. It was all 'how can I help you' instead of being 'how will this help me' which would have made such a difference imo. The white Knight approach really rubbed me the wrong way, and the side quests were designed around that. Again, I still think they could be far more interesting than dumb fetch quests. For example: you speak to a character who tells you a story about their ancestors discovering a lost tomb, and then you actually play a short flashback as the ancestor themselves. That way we can get more lore, character development (that isn't lara croft), feel like we are actually discovering lost history and get a portion of the game set in a different time. Innovative and interesting things like that could and should be done imo. Hell, the things you do in the flashback could even alter gameplay elements for Laras time frame if she ends up discovering the tomb herself.

Last edited by Swiz19; 21-06-21 at 23:05.
Swiz19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-21, 23:11   #8142
biscuits
Relic Hunter
 
biscuits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 5,168
Default

The hubs themselves aren't an issue. It's what they choose to do with the hubs. They were really just an excuse for collect-a-thon gameplay.
biscuits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-21, 02:40   #8143
Error96
Archaeologist
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Huddersfield, UK
Posts: 1,082
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuits View Post
The hubs themselves aren't an issue. It's what they choose to do with the hubs. They were really just an excuse for collect-a-thon gameplay.
I do think the hubs are a problem. It means you end up with vast areas with very little in them and lots of areas that use development time but many or most players skip them. I think you get far more replayability from a level based system where you can replay individual story sections.
__________________
Go team GOLD - It's time for Lara to get her dual pistols back
Error96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-21, 02:58   #8144
Swiz19
Archaeologist
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Error96 View Post
I do think the hubs are a problem. It means you end up with vast areas with very little in them and lots of areas that use development time but many or most players skip them. I think you get far more replayability from a level based system where you can replay individual story sections.
So your problem is that the hubs weren't better utilised? Agreed. But that doesn't mean hubs are bad, it just means Rise/Shadows hubs just weren't very good.
Swiz19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-21, 04:13   #8145
charmedangelin
Tomb Raider
 
charmedangelin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 17,774
Default

I just want to apologize if my posts came off as harsh earlier today, I just feel strongly about some aspects of the classics.
__________________
Always Pondering
charmedangelin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-21, 04:53   #8146
Chamayoo
Relic Hunter
 
Chamayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Palace Bananas
Posts: 7,543
Default

Ok maybe I'm the only one to think that Soviet Installation, Lost City (and Flooded Archive) are really good hubs.
__________________
The Lost Artifact, Beneath the Ashes and Lara's Shadow for everyone
Chamayoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-21, 05:51   #8147
Greenapple968
Tomb Raider
 
Greenapple968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Barkhang Monastery
Posts: 11,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by charmedangelin View Post
I just want to apologize if my posts came off as harsh earlier today, I just feel strongly about some aspects of the classics.
I haven't read every post in this thread, and so I don't know which posts you're talking about, but I doubt your posts were the worst that this forum has seen; you get a lot of posts which comes across in a bad way, sometimes it's intentional and sometimes it's not. I'm ashamed of the some of the stuff that I've said on this forum over the years, and I know I'm not the only one. It's big of you to apologise.
__________________
It only takes one person to be right.
Greenapple968 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-21, 14:50   #8148
killchan
Professor
 
killchan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Press "survival instinct" to find me
Posts: 2,669
Default

I'd rather get a Evil Within 2 style openworld: a completely hostile, metroidvania-driven and stimulating map with not many points of interest but where all of them matter.
Hubs feel more like detachable chunks of content that don't really mean anything in the gran scheme of things. Better an invisible yet meaningful corridor than irrelevant sidetracks.
__________________
Realism isn't an achievement. It's a choice
killchan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-21, 14:56   #8149
jajay119
Tomb Raider
 
jajay119's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 22,819
Default

In other news, Silent Hill fans were sent crazy by tweets that suggested a silent Hill announcement. They certainly got one. Konami have announced a new Silent Hill.... Skateboard.


We thought we were hard done to as TR fans. Is that better or worse than a cookbook?

Just goes to show things could always be worse.
__________________
... in my opinion.
jajay119 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-21, 15:18   #8150
rewak
Professor
 
rewak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,945
Default

I do not know why people got so worked up about that. It was the Konami merch store, outright stating they were teasing an incoming merch drop, and people went nuts thinking it was a game? They sell Metal Gear merch too, guess that means Metal Gear is coming back y'all! Then there was the whole Abandoned situation where people were harassing this small indie dev team convinced it was Kojima reviving Silent Hills, even when they stated multiple times they had no affiliation with Kojima, Konami, or Silent Hill. Eventually the head of the team had to make a video showing who he was just to convince people they really were just this small team making their own game. I've said it many times before but Kojima would have made an awful Silent Hill game, PT wasn't even that good, I'll never understand why people poop themselves over it to this day. The mans the least subtle creator in the industry and you want him to make a game for a series that's all about being subtle? It's not happening now and would have been terrible anyway, move on!
rewak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.