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Old 15-06-19, 20:25   #91
mandylane
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im not sure about dual. maybe in some part of the game but not in the whole game.

would be weird how it would work like when she got other weapons.

dual pistols like in unreal tournament? ummm
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Old 16-06-19, 01:14   #92
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I get where you’re coming from, but frankly, this mentality frustrates me a little. It comes off to me as a spoiled brat which will throw a fit if something isn’t their way.

“You want a cookie? Okay, here you go”
“But... it’s a fudge striped cookie, not a Chips Ahoy!”

Of course, I’m not saying this is how people act about it, but I do feel like this state-of-mind comes off as a bit entitled. You want this one thing and the person gives it to you, but since it isn’t exactly like what you wanted it, down to a T, you get peeved off. Obviously, I think the main games do seriously need to come closer and closer to the source material, but I feel that will only ever happen so much.

In a spin-off, they can eat their heart out and make the game older fans have wanted for so long.
CD isn't giving me a cookie out of the goodness of their heart, they're developing a product to sell and make money.

Criticizing a product doesn't make me entitled. Me being pissed off when what I expect from a product is relegated to the back corner and treated like the red headed step sister doesn't make me entitled either.
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I think it's pretty common actually. Pretty much every game or film these days has the name and a number of iconic features from a beloved old franchise while actually being a badly written creatively bankrupt piece of crap full of identity politics.

And as for the LC series: yeah it's not perfect, but beggars can't be choosers...
I'm not a beggar, I'm a paying customer, lol. So to me, it isn't good enough.

Last edited by Daft Raider; 16-06-19 at 01:19.
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Old 16-06-19, 01:35   #93
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CD isn't giving me a cookie out of the goodness of their heart, they're developing a product to sell and make money.

When I criticizing their product, that doesn't make me entitled, and me expecting a product to be a certain way given how it was created and was for several years and feeling frustrated when it's been completely changed so they can appeal to an audience that hasn't been here since the beginning and hasn't made it what it was doesn't make me entitled.
That's exactly what it makes you. You are already implying that by supporting the franchise since the beginning you're entitled to more than the people who were not present. The sentiment that you're better/more worthy because of that is incredible entitled. And it's a very toxic attitude because by that logic, you would never be able to be a part of a fandom that's not completely new and you're suggesting that those new people (who in TR's case bring more money than the actual core fandom) should be taken less in consideration, which goes completely against any logical business decision.

There needs to be a middle ground in all cases and the devs and the studio need to better balance the franchise by giving us new and exciting mechanics, new stories, new layers to the character, etc, while also trying to give long time fans some cool nods, classic outfits and updated mechanics that would fit the current vision and that would also attract new costumers.

I truly feel like the Reboot era has been great so far (specially in the gameplay department) and I get the feeling that some more nods to the classics (like modernized outfits instead of tribal ones), a little more sarcastic humor for Lara and a more recognizable look (duals and a backpack) would've made the most vicious haters be more positive about it, because honestly, the gameplay has been really good, and the puzzles and tombs, specially in Shadow are top notch.
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Old 16-06-19, 01:50   #94
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Originally Posted by Daft Raider View Post
CD isn't giving me a cookie out of the goodness of their heart, they're developing a product to sell and make money.

Criticizing a product doesn't make me entitled. Me being pissed off when what I expect from a product is relegated to the back corner and treated like the red headed step sister doesn't make me entitled either.
It was... an analogy... I-

I’m not saying criticism makes you (or anyone) entitled. All I’m saying it can come off as a little entitled to me when you can get exactly what you want, give or take, but because something’s just slightly different, so down goes the axe and one decides they’re not having any of it.

Regardless, like I said before, I do kind of get where you’re coming from, and in a perfect world (for me anyway) we would have stuck with classic Lara all along without the “boobs and guns” nonsense and the games would have evolved in other areas. Maybe a reboot and/or origin story of sorts could have happened eventually, but maybe it would have led into a new take on classic Lara or a reincarnation of her. I love reboot Lara, but tbqh, this would have been miles better.
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Old 16-06-19, 02:57   #95
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Originally Posted by iWANEX View Post
That's exactly what it makes you. You are already implying that by supporting the franchise since the beginning you're entitled to more than the people who were not present. The sentiment that you're better/more worthy because of that is incredible entitled. And it's a very toxic attitude because by that logic, you would never be able to be a part of a fandom that's not completely new and you're suggesting that those new people (who in TR's case bring more money than the actual core fandom) should be taken less in consideration, which goes completely against any logical business decision.

There needs to be a middle ground in all cases and the devs and the studio need to better balance the franchise by giving us new and exciting mechanics, new stories, new layers to the character, etc, while also trying to give long time fans some cool nods, classic outfits and updated mechanics that would fit the current vision and that would also attract new costumers.

I truly feel like the Reboot era has been great so far (specially in the gameplay department) and I get the feeling that some more nods to the classics (like modernized outfits instead of tribal ones), a little more sarcastic humor for Lara and a more recognizable look (duals and a backpack) would've made the most vicious haters be more positive about it, because honestly, the gameplay has been really good, and the puzzles and tombs, specially in Shadow are top notch.
Quit being dramatic and twisting my words. I’m saying that changing the fundamentals of a game and changing the main character completely for the sole purpose of catering to an audience that didn’t play the game before alienates the audience that the game originally catered too. This says that the casual gamers dollar is valued more than the audience that was already there, the people that supported the franchise are tossed aside and left in the dust.

Of course you don’t see the problem with this because the franchise is currently catering to you, a demographic that the game wasn’t originally created to cater too.
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Old 16-06-19, 03:08   #96
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Originally Posted by iWANEX View Post
That's exactly what it makes you. You are already implying that by supporting the franchise since the beginning you're entitled to more than the people who were not present. The sentiment that you're better/more worthy because of that is incredible entitled.
I think in some respects the sentiment is right. There may be some fans who have casually bought one game. Others have bought TR products and put money into TR over many years growing the brand and sustaining it over difficult patches. Whilst I am not saying it should be the determining factor there, the loyalty the long-term fans have shown should assign a value beyond mere that counts as 1 TR player. It's about showing that loyalty back not assuming devotion. This is exactly what the bad attitude to duals and outfits has done - taken all the long-term fan loyalty for granted.

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Originally Posted by iWANEX View Post
There needs to be a middle ground in all cases and the devs and the studio need to better balance the franchise by giving us new and exciting mechanics, new stories, new layers to the character, etc, while also trying to give long time fans some cool nods, classic outfits and updated mechanics that would fit the current vision and that would also attract new costumers.

I truly feel like the Reboot era has been great so far (specially in the gameplay department) and I get the feeling that some more nods to the classics (like modernized outfits instead of tribal ones), a little more sarcastic humor for Lara and a more recognizable look (duals and a backpack) would've made the most vicious haters be more positive about it, because honestly, the gameplay has been really good, and the puzzles and tombs, specially in Shadow are top notch.
I agree with you on the gameplay and SOTTR's tombs. I think Shadow's gameplay is the best since the original 3 games and for me that is a huge thing to say. On the nods however, they have done the minimum amount - 5 seconds gameplay with the duals, halfway towards classic outfit, barely anywhere towards the humour. At least they did the manor but overall it's not enough now we are 3 games down the line. I feel the gameplay is good but the way the iconography has been dealt with means I could never think of the reboot as being a great TR era. IWANEX I think you are pretty spot on though about what they need to do.
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Old 16-06-19, 08:04   #97
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I haven't seen this dual wielding footage. Anywhere I can find it? Only thing I can find is the E3 trailer.
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Old 16-06-19, 08:20   #98
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I've just watched it myself.

Black widow running and jumping is totally just Reboot Lara animations. She does that stupid sprint and float in the air jump.

The dual pistol shooting looks really good though and I hate it. Thanks CD/SE.
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Old 16-06-19, 09:40   #99
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Originally Posted by Daft Raider View Post
Quit being dramatic and twisting my words. Iím saying that changing the fundamentals of a game and changing the main character completely for the sole purpose of catering to an audience that didnít play the game before alienates the audience that the game originally catered too. This says that the casual gamers dollar is valued more than the audience that was already there, the people that supported the franchise are tossed aside and left in the dust.
Actually what the reboot says is that the casual gamers are necessary for the survival of the franchise. So their money is as valuable as yours or mine. And when new entries are created both sides need to be taken in consideration. You would never be able to keep the franchise alive by catering to the core fandom and relegate the casuals to a second place. That's not how business works, sorry. But as I said in my previous post, they need to find a better balance.

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Of course you donít see the problem with this because the franchise is currently catering to you, a demographic that the game wasnít originally created to cater too.
And what demographic is that? The one that has supported the franchise non-stop since the beginning? I wasn't introduced to TR yesterday, you know.
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Old 16-06-19, 10:12   #100
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You would never be able to keep the franchise alive by catering to the core fandom and relegate the casuals to a second place. That's not how business works, sorry.
Nonsense, of course it's possible. You just don't give it an enormous budget. Casual gamers are exactly that, casual. As long as the game caters for them in someway (for example difficulty settings) they'll be easily pleased.
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