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Old 30-04-19, 15:51   #101
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All the characters surviving just displayed how the series went from a show that was famous for throwing plot armour out of the window to the type of storytelling it famously subverted. Samwell died about 12 times this episode. The man was brought down by a horde of walkers a dozen times this episode. He looked ridiculous fighting the walkers while lying on his back. Tormund and Grey Worm surviving was also weird AF. What purpose does he serve in the story now anyway?? He could have went out killing the giant wight. That would have been a cool send off to the character. The show keeps telling us how high the stakes are and how the threat to human existence is looming over them all, but none of the writers have the guts to show us how high the stakes are.
A show about consequences and playing the game right has turned into wish fulfilment and pandering to its viewers. Jon should have died when he fell 10000 feet from Rhaegal. He should have died when he ALONE was surrounded by hundreds of wights. He should have died when he had that stupid screaming match with the undead dragon.

It's hard to believe that this show killed of its main character in it's very first season due to the mistakes that he committed. It didn't matter how noble Ned was. At the end of the day, he screwed up wayyyy too many times to survive his ordeal. The same goes for Robb Stark. I just find it baffling how it degraded to last minute convenient saves and characters surviving ridiculous ordeals. If season 1 was written the way it was now, Syrio Forel would probably jump out of thin air and free Ned Stark and massacre Joffrey and the Kingsguard because it's what the people want!!

And like Isaac said, how did Arya kill the Night King?? If they could hear her own blood dripping how on earth did she get past the all the wights??? And her materializing and killing the Night King made no sense at all!!! It was just done so poorly.


I still loved the episode though.
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Old 30-04-19, 15:59   #102
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^Yes, I just want to reiterate also, I absolutely loved the episode too. Way more than episodes 1 and 2 of season 8.

But ultimately I feel a greater cost was required for such a monumental victory.
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Old 30-04-19, 16:08   #103
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Itís just weird because itís the last season and most character arcs are complete, so killing a few of them was the perfect timing if the Writers wanted.
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Old 30-04-19, 16:10   #104
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Itís just weird because itís the last season and most character arcs are complete, so killing a few of them was the perfect timing if the Writers wanted.
All the characters in the fireplace scene survived.
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Old 30-04-19, 16:14   #105
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At least Jorah got a good send off (I felt teary) and Theon got the forgiveness and acceptance he so needed.

I thank them for doing that at least.
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Old 30-04-19, 16:14   #106
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At least Jorah got a good send off (I felt teary) and Theon got the forgiveness and acceptance he so needed.

I thank them for doing that at least.
Indeed
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Old 30-04-19, 17:24   #107
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I'm not gonna quote, but I'll offer my take.

The Wall was good idea. Even Benjen couldn't cross the wall, and he wasn't fully a wight. The Wall worked fine until a dragon happened, and I don't think they were around at the time the wall was being built. Without that dragon, the wall stands. The dead are still trapped.

So the irony is, in trying to stop it, Jon caused it. At least he cleans up his own messes.

I'm not up on the chronology of the eras, there is the Valerian steel aspect that does seem to post date the first Long Night. That's what kills the general class. So maybe the First Men couldn't kill the Night King. And it's possible there were simply not the numbers of wights there are now. Now the NK's army is everyone who's died for 8000 years north of the wall. South of the wall, the armies are limited by death. Beyond the wall, death only increases one army.

Also, part of the horror of the Long Night isn't just the WW--it's quite literally a long night which means you can't grow food. It means less forage for animals. Winter is coming is a reminder to live every day preparing for the time when you can't grow food, can't count on wildlife to stay around to sustain you. When literally no one believes the White Walkers exist except for a few Watchers on the Wall, "winter is coming" doesn't mean scary **** from beyond the wall is coming to get you. It means, "prepare or you're dead."

As for Arya, the truth is she didn't sneak past. She was let past. The NK controls the wights. He knew she was there, otherwise she would have stabbed the NK in the back. He made the classic blunder of not knowing her skills. Perhaps he'd never fought anyone like her.

And I'm gonna have to disagree with Blackmoor and possibly others--

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The reason we are here watching this era of game of thrones is because it's the time of the second coming of the WW. The whole story is about how the humans defeat them. And it being a fantasy story that includes magic, greenseers, 3-eyed ravens, dragons, assassins training to be faceless men, Lord of Light's and prophecy. Such things are not the backdrop to a political story about who will rule Westeros, they are an orchestrated build up to defeating the most monumental enemy of the world.
That's not the reason I'm here. I'm invested in the politics, in the cruelties men inflict on men, the heroes who rise to protect the weak, the folly of trust and the strength of love. Those interest me as much--probably more--than another zombie story (and I say this as someone who still loves zombies. When ya gonna pick up Ex-Heroes, Netflix?)
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Old 30-04-19, 17:38   #108
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That's not the reason I'm here. I'm invested in the politics, in the cruelties men inflict on men, the heroes who rise to protect the weak, the folly of trust and the strength of love. Those interest me as much--probably more--than another zombie story (and I say this as someone who still loves zombies. When ya gonna pick up Ex-Heroes, Netflix?)
I think the majority of us viewers were more invested in the politics and scheming. The Walkers were never a huge focus in the show's early seasons. The same goes for the first three books. They were there and were a looming threat but we'd instantly forget about them in the wake of the inner politics of King's Landing or Robb's struggle with the war or Arya's journey. All those aspects were far more interesting to me. I cared far more about the iron throne plot than the wight threat.
But the Night King's army was still what Jon's story revolved around. It's what the Night's Watch was all about. It was about their struggle to warn the continent about the looming threat that they ignore in favour of their squabbles and who would win the Iron Throne. It was only until a few seasons ago that I really started to care about the Walker threat. It's what the last few seasons have been about. It was about Jon getting the seven kingdoms and by extension, the viewers to care about the bigger threat.
By focusing so much on the White Walkers for the past few seasons, they succeeded in having me see the politics and skirmishes over the throne as trivial. By getting rid of the wight threat and telling me "Nah Cersei's the real big bad" the show has lost a lot of credibility to me. I can't see how Cersei is such a serious issue now. After the Walker plot, I can't help but see the iron throne as something trivial.
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Old 30-04-19, 18:11   #109
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I kinda see the plot the writers want to explore though. Jon was never interested in the throne or royalties, he just wanted the people of his world (or the North at least) safe from a threat. And this was resolved.

Which leave a very tiny army of survivors vs. the fully geared Cersei.

The throne is Dany's agenda, and I have no doubt she'll go to extreme lengths to get it, to a point that Jon might feel innocent people could still be in danger because of her, thus setting him an ultimate goal, to stop massacres once and for all.
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Old 30-04-19, 18:29   #110
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^Yes, I have a feeling that is where the story is going in terms of Jon and Dany, which being a fan of Dany I don't want , but can see the writing on the wall...

---

When I say the reason "we are watching this era of game of thrones", I don't mean us literally. I mean the reason the story is set in the era it is. Obviously we all have individual tastes.

I mean in terms of story structure, I feel the battle for the dawn is the main event that the story has been building up to - the climax. Yes, GRR has written it in a great way so that it's fascinating to see how the different families jostle for control of Westeros, and the question of the throne is also a big story question, but the bigger overarching picture is the fight for the dawn. The fight with the WW.

Edit: Just like biscuit's example earlier with Harry Potter. The overarching story of that is the fight between Harry and the Dark Lord, climaxing in the final battle and defeat of Voldemort, but the story of how Harry fares at Hogwarts is still very interesting.
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