KV5 different versions - Page 6

Phlip · 23-02-10, 13:51

This TR2 one?

rr_carroll · 23-02-10, 19:52

Oh right, I forgot you're one of the people I discussed this with.

The Great Chi · 23-02-10, 22:33

The KV5 change I can understand to stop the jeep shortcut, which started this thread.

But this is getting all too mysterious, with different PC versions and even other console versions, having what seems to be very minor changes to some levels.

We need more answers, but I am beginning to think that only the origional designers could have given us that.

So have we reached the end of this detective story, Yes or No

I would normally say, yes at this point, but as usual on this forum someone will still have something to say, that may enlighten us further

Phlip · 27-02-10, 05:30

I'm guessing the original PC and Sold out PC version's saves are incompatible? Because if they where, you could see what happens if you make a save in the Sold Out version of Lara standing under the up-sloped crawl space in Sacred Lake, and then load it in the original version. She'd probably just stand through it, but it's interesting. XD I still wonder why they decided to slope it up.

Mytly · 27-02-10, 19:21

The saves must be compatible, or else someone would have noticed the differences a long time ago.

!Lara Croft! · 27-02-10, 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlip

I'm guessing the original PC and Sold out PC version's saves are incompatible? Because if they where, you could see what happens if you make a save in the Sold Out version of Lara standing under the up-sloped crawl space in Sacred Lake, and then load it in the original version. She'd probably just stand through it, but it's interesting. XD I still wonder why they decided to slope it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mytly

The saves must be compatible, or else someone would have noticed the differences a long time ago.

Im a TRLE-er so i know my way around the TR4 engine.

A good way of describing savegames is through the game 'Battleship'. Say the ships are rooms of the level, the map of the ocean is the big white map the rooms are on and lara is a red marker. Lara (the red peg) can only stand on the LE room (ships), when you make a savegame the engine doesnt mark which room (ship) you are on but your location on the map (E7, B2 etc).

So if you saved lara(red peg)'s co-ordinates in a room (ship), then took the ships out, moved the ships around and placed every peg where it was, its more than likely that Lara (red peg) will end up in the empty map (the ocean) where she cannot excist and the game crashes.

Yet more complicated is the height lara is in a secific room, if she is two clicks below 0 (map level) and the rooms switch so that the base of the room is at 2 not 0. The lower half of lara will be embedded in the ground and the game will crash.

I think ive described it as clearly as possible...

Ewil · 01-03-10, 16:18

Wouldn't it rather work like position editor ? If you "overshoot" and end up in a void, the game won't crash.

The Great Chi · 01-03-10, 23:08

Interesting reading about your savegames.....

Considering the size of any TR4 level, there would have been a very low chance of anyone making a savepoint at either the jeep rocks of KV5, or the locked gate of city of the dead, or the sloped tunnel in sacred lake...

......And then swap over PC disks from origional to soldout, or vice versa....

.....And then spot the differences in level or something going wrong with the savepoint.

I thought I would try swaping at nearly same savepoint location for the sloped tunnel of sacred lake, just to see what happend.

You will notice in the soldout version lara is half a square lower than the origional version.

The saves worked in either game version, and vice versa.

The only difference as you can guess, was that the origional vesion saved lara fell, half a square down to hit the lower positioned floor of the soldout level.

When you try it the other way, you may have expected lara to be trapped in the floor, or stuck outside the level, but no, she just leveled out at the new higher floor level, at it was ony a half a square in hight difference.

!Lara Croft! · 01-03-10, 23:31

/\ /\ Yeah forgot to mention that if the floor is moved lower she will simply fall to the correct height.

Occasionally when she is 'embedded' she still can move, i got stuck in the ceiling of a crawlspace using DOZY, (feet 1 click from ground level) but by simply pressing crawl she suddenly glitched out of the ceiling and acted normally.

EDIT : I think i might know the reason CORE changed that passage...

In the editor it is very common that if you make a crawlspace by having the ceiling sharply get lower ( _| ) in a passage that lara will refuse to crawl into it and act as though there is an invisible wall there. But having a floor slope up has no glitches, this archetecture would have been impliamented to bypass this glitch, but in the first revise the glich was solved and it could go back to normal geometry.

rr_carroll · 01-03-10, 23:43

I believe what !Lara Croft! says, but the results from the position editor and loading a save to a different version suggest that after a load, the game engine intervenes somehow. It reminds me of the corner bug - if you embed in the corner somehow, the engine seems to think, "The numbers say Lara is below the lowest surface. That can't be right, I'll increase her altitude until she's in game space."

Incidentally, I think her "altitude" must be at the bottom of her feet - if you manage to embed into a crawlspace, Lara ends up standing INTO the masonry overhead (you can Duck, and then crawl).

Oops, didn't see !L.C.!'s new post until I posted.

23-02-10, 22:33	#53
The Great Chi The Inscrutable One Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Beyond the Floating Islands Posts: 9,513	The KV5 change I can understand to stop the jeep shortcut, which started this thread. But this is getting all too mysterious, with different PC versions and even other console versions, having what seems to be very minor changes to some levels. We need more answers, but I am beginning to think that only the origional designers could have given us that. So have we reached the end of this detective story, Yes or No I would normally say, yes at this point, but as usual on this forum someone will still have something to say, that may enlighten us further __________________ Humble words by The Great Chi

01-03-10, 23:08	#58
The Great Chi The Inscrutable One Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Beyond the Floating Islands Posts: 9,513	Interesting reading about your savegames..... Considering the size of any TR4 level, there would have been a very low chance of anyone making a savepoint at either the jeep rocks of KV5, or the locked gate of city of the dead, or the sloped tunnel in sacred lake... ......And then swap over PC disks from origional to soldout, or vice versa.... .....And then spot the differences in level or something going wrong with the savepoint. I thought I would try swaping at nearly same savepoint location for the sloped tunnel of sacred lake, just to see what happend. You will notice in the soldout version lara is half a square lower than the origional version. The saves worked in either game version, and vice versa. The only difference as you can guess, was that the origional vesion saved lara fell, half a square down to hit the lower positioned floor of the soldout level. When you try it the other way, you may have expected lara to be trapped in the floor, or stuck outside the level, but no, she just leveled out at the new higher floor level, at it was ony a half a square in hight difference. __________________ Humble words by The Great Chi

01-03-10, 23:31	#59
!Lara Croft! Inactive Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,368	/\ /\ Yeah forgot to mention that if the floor is moved lower she will simply fall to the correct height. Occasionally when she is 'embedded' she still can move, i got stuck in the ceiling of a crawlspace using DOZY, (feet 1 click from ground level) but by simply pressing crawl she suddenly glitched out of the ceiling and acted normally. EDIT : I think i might know the reason CORE changed that passage... In the editor it is very common that if you make a crawlspace by having the ceiling sharply get lower ( _\| ) in a passage that lara will refuse to crawl into it and act as though there is an invisible wall there. But having a floor slope up has no glitches, this archetecture would have been impliamented to bypass this glitch, but in the first revise the glich was solved and it could go back to normal geometry. Last edited by !Lara Croft!; 01-03-10 at 23:35.

01-03-10, 23:43	#60
rr_carroll Bug Scientist Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California Posts: 7,209	I believe what !Lara Croft! says, but the results from the position editor and loading a save to a different version suggest that after a load, the game engine intervenes somehow. It reminds me of the corner bug - if you embed in the corner somehow, the engine seems to think, "The numbers say Lara is below the lowest surface. That can't be right, I'll increase her altitude until she's in game space." Incidentally, I think her "altitude" must be at the bottom of her feet - if you manage to embed into a crawlspace, Lara ends up standing INTO the masonry overhead (you can Duck, and then crawl). Oops, didn't see !L.C.!'s new post until I posted. Last edited by rr_carroll; 01-03-10 at 23:46.

23-02-10, 13:51	#51
Phlip Inactive Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: England ♂ Posts: 31,273	This TR2 one?

23-02-10, 19:52	#52
rr_carroll Bug Scientist Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: California Posts: 7,209	Oh right, I forgot you're one of the people I discussed this with.

27-02-10, 05:30	#54
Phlip Inactive Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: England ♂ Posts: 31,273	I'm guessing the original PC and Sold out PC version's saves are incompatible? Because if they where, you could see what happens if you make a save in the Sold Out version of Lara standing under the up-sloped crawl space in Sacred Lake, and then load it in the original version. She'd probably just stand through it, but it's interesting. XD I still wonder why they decided to slope it up.

27-02-10, 19:21	#55
Mytly Tomb Raider Join Date: May 2006 Location: In the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy Posts: 14,252	The saves must be compatible, or else someone would have noticed the differences a long time ago.

01-03-10, 16:18	#57
Ewil Historian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 304	Wouldn't it rather work like position editor ? If you "overshoot" and end up in a void, the game won't crash.