TR3 Graphics are Ahead of it's Time - Page 13

New Dwight · 12-03-20, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Seth

All you need to care about is the end product that exists as it stands today.

Yeah, but I also like to care about the dev who made such a gem too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeauxleaux

They grew tired of the series yes, but only really because they were being worked into the ground so greedy Eidos could get a yearly injection of cash. That was why they got bored and wanted to kill Lara off. It was a kind of "**** you" to Eidos and done in some hope they could get a damn break for a while.

Everything that went wrong with Tomb Raider is down to the demand for them to be rushed out quickly, not down to CORE "giving up" or "not having ability to innovate".

I always say, TR1 and 2 were fine as they were. Then, they needed at least 18 months, if not 2 years, production time on the game that would be TR3 to make it a bigger jump in quality. That third game should have been the last title on PS1. They should have then gone full-throttle on the PS2 debut and that would have been much better.

This makes sense in context.

malferink · 12-03-20, 20:41

I think sometimes people forget there's only one side of the story we've ever heard... And that is that of Core. who knows what went down behind the scenes... can't recall where I read it but I remember there was a really bad atmosphere in the office at the time of the classic TR's (from TR2 onward)

Like I said, not that I want to blame core on anything but we've never heard the story from any eidos employees, or hell even any from crystal d. (at least as far as I can remember) so it seems a bit unfair members here are only bashing everything but core, and praising core to the heavens. just my two cents - and this is coming from a really big classic fan

dg1995 · 12-03-20, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by malferink

I think sometimes people forget there's only one side of the story we've ever heard... And that is that of Core. who knows what went down behind the scenes... can't recall where I read it but I remember there was a really bad atmosphere in the office at the time of the classic TR's (from TR2 onward)

Like I said, not that I want to blame core on anything but we've never heard the story from any eidos employees, or hell even any from crystal d. (at least as far as I can remember) so it seems a bit unfair members here are only bashing everything but core, and praising core to the heavens. just my two cents - and this is coming from a really big classic fan

Yeah I agree.

In my opinion if Core Design was really as good as some people here believe then they would have made more awesome games than just TR games and they wouldn't have gone bankrupt.
Fans here blame Eidos for cancelling TR anniversary Edition by core and yet they never talk about this that Core design never managed to make any hit game after TR AOD.(At very least the developers of Bubsy 3D managed to make Syphon Filter after that.)

Also weren't Core Disign TR 1 Remake a violation of their rule ?
They agreed to allow Crystal to make the next TR game. But they just decided to make a remake of TR 1 the same year as Legend and compete with them.

I'm pretty sure that Core Design handled AOD very badly. Even according to that article they always told Eidos that AOD will release "when it's ready".
That behavior is completely wrong. Because if developers want they can work on a game for 10-20 years and just improve it,make it better and add more features but never release it.

Core design also added lots of unnecessary features in AOD(Stealth,Kurtis sections,RPG mechanics) which if they never wasted their time on them they could make the base gameplay much better.
It kinda looks like that they wanted to make the most revolutionary game of all time which they failed at that.(I'm pretty sure the game wouldn't become better if it would be delayed since they would just spend that time adding more unnecessary features than making the gameplay better)

As for yearly sequels, I'm pretty sure that Core Design management was completely okay with that. Alongside this Core also gave Eidos the results they wanted by making 3 sequels as successful as the first TR game. So both Eidos and Core were happy about yearly sequels.

paulojr_mam · 12-03-20, 23:40

I do think it's odd how Core was making games that didn't draw a lot of attention, then they made this incredible TR series, then they went back to doing average games. But the fact they're a one-hit (or more accurately a one-franchise) wonder, doesn't mean they're less skilled at that one-hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg1995

Core design also added lots of unnecessary features in AOD(Stealth,Kurtis sections,RPG mechanics) which if they never wasted their time on them they could make the base gameplay much better.
It kinda looks like that they wanted to make the most revolutionary game of all time which they failed at that.(I'm pretty sure the game wouldn't become better if it would be delayed since they would just spend that time adding more unnecessary features than making the gameplay better)

All asked by Eidos.

dg1995 · 13-03-20, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulojr_mam

All asked by Eidos.

And yet they accepted it. It wasn't like this that Core Design was a slave of Eidos and had to do whatever they said.

Caesum · 13-03-20, 10:15

Okay guys we really went offtopic with this (3 pages of TRAOD talk, wow!) so I took the liberty and created a new thread just for this conversation.

If you want to continue talking about TRAOD I strongly suggest writing it here: https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...73#post8178073

(I hope mods are okay with that)

If we could please move on here with TR3 related conversation now that would be great!

Just to remind the last TR3 related post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix Kroft

Thank God for Eidos then!

I'm not a big fan of TR4 changes in overall atmosphere, it feels like a soft-reboot to me, but i do enjoy every classic Tomb Raider as it is, but i would hate time travel, or anything super sci-fi.

TR 1-3 feels consistent in tone, mood, atmosphere, but TR4 always felt like a vintage, and more cartoony version of Lara, almost like some alternate reality TR. Despite all new effects, graphics, and enchancements, it felt like step backwards after TR3, it was fresh in most ways of course, but something was off about it, that's how i felt, but i still enjoyed TR4 it's a solid title, propably the biggest Tomb Raider of them all. Still i prefer TR5 over TR4.

[...]

As to TR3 graphics, they are really extraordinary, but it's not like it's in YOUR face, many changes, and cool effects were added, but to be appreciated fully, when You take Your time to stop, and look around, and notice.

It's not something groundbreaking, but i've learned with time, to understand how much effort, and love went into making of TR3

malferink · 14-03-20, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caesum

Okay guys we really went offtopic with this (3 pages of TRAOD talk, wow!) so I took the liberty and created a new thread just for this conversation.

If you want to continue talking about TRAOD I strongly suggest writing it here: https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...73#post8178073

(I hope mods are okay with that)

If we could please move on here with TR3 related conversation now that would be great!

Just to remind the last TR3 related post:

way to kill an interesting discussion

Caesum · 14-03-20, 11:51

There's nothing stopping you from continuing it in the other thread. Also not my fault that apparently TR3 is not interesting enough to continue the proper discussion.

dg1995 · 14-03-20, 13:38

BTW, didn't MGS 1 only supported like 4 npcs on screen at most ?

I think TR 3 supported more npcs on screen and it also had NPCs that could fight with each other.

I still believe that TR 3 has better graphics compare to MGS 1.

paulojr_mam · 14-03-20, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg1995

I still believe that TR 3 has better graphics compare to MGS 1.

I agree. I don't see what MGS does that is so incredible, except being a good-looking fully polygonal rather open game on PS1 which is rare.

12-03-20, 20:41	#122
malferink Archaeologist Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,323	I think sometimes people forget there's only one side of the story we've ever heard... And that is that of Core. who knows what went down behind the scenes... can't recall where I read it but I remember there was a really bad atmosphere in the office at the time of the classic TR's (from TR2 onward) Like I said, not that I want to blame core on anything but we've never heard the story from any eidos employees, or hell even any from crystal d. (at least as far as I can remember) so it seems a bit unfair members here are only bashing everything but core, and praising core to the heavens. just my two cents - and this is coming from a really big classic fan Last edited by malferink; 12-03-20 at 20:42.

14-03-20, 11:51	#128
Caesum Tomb Raider Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Poland, Warsaw Gender: Male Posts: 12,058	There's nothing stopping you from continuing it in the other thread. Also not my fault that apparently TR3 is not interesting enough to continue the proper discussion.

14-03-20, 13:38	#129
dg1995 Archaeologist Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 1,789	BTW, didn't MGS 1 only supported like 4 npcs on screen at most ? I think TR 3 supported more npcs on screen and it also had NPCs that could fight with each other. I still believe that TR 3 has better graphics compare to MGS 1.