A new Tomb Raider V for TR IV-VI Remastered

Mr Od · 06-05-24, 15:02

Idea also proposed:
- In this thread: https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...d.php?t=229343
- In this post: https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...&postcount=730 – of this thread: https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...d.php?t=228661

------------------------

Tomb Raider: Chronicles was clearly an uninspired and botched job, although not on the technical and gameplay level like AoD, but rather on the plot level.

It will probably never happen, but it would be great if, in the future Tomb Raider IV-VI Remastered collection, instead of remastering Chronicles they replaced it with a new TR5 with a good plot, perhaps developing two of the four adventures already told in Chronicles into a new unified plot under a new title while preserving the other two as a Gold expansion under the old title.

------------------------

Title: Tomb Raider: The Spear of Destiny (Tomb Raider V)

✤ Training introduction FMV: it shows how Lara escaped the collapse of the Temple of Horus in Giza at the end of TR4 and was rescued by the tribe of the shamaness Putai.

• Training level: Sudan — Lara is trained back to health by the shamaness Putai; then, she leaves the tribe/training area by motorbike and heads to the nearest city to board the flight to London.

➧ Outfit: classic from TR4
➧ Level title: Nubian desert

✤ Game introduction FMV: it shows the history of the Spear of Destiny in Roman Judaea during Jesus' crucifixion: the holy spear is an ancient Mesopotamian artefact which belonged to the god Enki/Ea/Yahweh; it was stolen by the Roman army from the Temple of Enki in the ancient city of Eridu and was wielded by the Roman soldier Longinus to pierce Jesus' chest, causing the miracle of the water which confirmed that Jesus was indeed a human manifestation of Enki/Yahweh; after the miracle, Longinus returned the spear to Mesopotamian priests, who hid it in a complex of secret chambers beneath the Temple of Enki locked by a key-artefact split into three pieces; the indications of the precise whereabouts of the secret chambers are kept in the Etemenanki in Babylon, and can be revealed only by another key-artefact, the Iris.

• Location 1: New York — Lara, helped by Zip, infiltrates the building of the Von Croy Industries to steal both the Iris which she and her old mentor found in Cambodia and another Roman-era Mesopotamian artefact which Von Croy found in an archaeological dig in Syria; Von Croy and his men try to thwart her, but they fail; by the end of this location, she discovers that the Iris and the other artefact, which is actually one of the three pieces of a key, are what is needed to find and open access to the secret chambers of the Spear of Destiny in present-day Iraq; she also discovers that the other two pieces of the key are, respectively, beneath the ruins of a temple in Israel and in a Nazi German submarine which sank off the coasts of Russia.
➤ Description: this section would be almost identical to its version in Chronicles 2000, with the difference that Lara would infiltrate the Von Croy Industries' building to steal both the Iris, which would be revealed to be a Roman-era Mesopotamian artefact, and one of the three pieces of the key, both needed to respectively find and open access to the secret chambers where the Spear of Destiny would be hidden.
➤ Enemies: Von Croy's security guards.

➧ Outfit: catsuit (same as in Chronicles 2000)
➧ Levels' titles:
➥ 13th floor
➥ Escape with the artefacts
➥ Red alert!

• Location 2: Israel — Lara explores the area where the ruins of a Temple of Baal are located; beneath the temple are the caves where the second piece of the key was hidden by the Mesopotamian priests. Lara clashes with a Russian mafia group led by Sergei Mikhailov, who is himself on the trail of the pieces of the key.
➤ Description: with a development similar to TR1's Greece levels, in this section Lara would explore the site of Tel Lachish, from which to access complexes deeper and deeper beneath it, including the lost palace of the Judaean king Jehoshaphat, then a Temple of Baal, and eventually caves dedicated to Yahweh where she would find the second piece of the key.
➤ Enemies: animals, Sergei's henchmen, and supernatural entities such as animated statues.

➧ Outfit: gray shorts, yellow leotard
➧ Levels' titles:
➥ Tel Lachish
➥ Palace of Jehoshaphat
➥ Temple of Baal
➥ Caves of Yahweh

• Location 3: Russia — Lara, helped by Charles Kane, infiltrates an old Soviet base where Sergei, with the help of Admiral Igor Yarofev, has been organising the operations to recover the third piece of the key, which he located in a sunken Nazi German submarine; in the 1940s, the Nazis were on the trail of the holy spear, and they successfully recovered a piece of the key in Iran, but it was eventually lost when the submarine which was carrying it sank.
➤ Description: this section would be very similar to its version in Chronicles 2000, with the differences that Lara would infiltrate the base and Yarofev's submarine to recover the third piece of the the key, not the holy spear itself, that the levels would be significantly expanded, with the first one introduced by an exploration part, also with a vehicle, of the Russian tundra surrounding the base in order to find a way to get into the latter, and that Sergei would not be annihilated in this section and something else would damage Yarofev's submarine.
➤ Enemies: animals in the tundra and the outdoors parts of the base, and Sergei's henchmen in the other areas.

➧ Outfit: camouflage + deep sea diving suit (same as in Chronicles 2000)
➧ Levels' titles:
➥ The Soviet base
➥ Yarofev's submarine
➥ Deepsea dive
➥ Sinking submarine

• Location 4: Iraq — Lara explores the sites of the ancient cities of Babylon and Eridu in order to find the secret underground chambers where the Spear of Destiny was hidden. Sergei and his henchmen chase her, and Sergei eventually finds the holy spear before she does, but he is annihilated by the artefact's power. Lara recovers the spear and successfully escapes from the underground chambers as everything collapses around her.
➤ Description: this section would begin in Baghdad, where Lara would explore the streets on the outskirts of the city looking for a vehicle to reach the site of the ancient city of Babylon; having reached the latter, Lara would explore the ruins of the palace of the Babylonian king Nabuchadnezzar and then the ruins of the Etemenanki, the Temple of Marduk, where she would use the Iris to find the precise indications for the whereabouts of the secret chambers beneath the Temple of Enki in Eridu; then she would move to the site of the latter, nowadays yclept Tell Abu Shahrain, and ultimately would find the entrance to the Abyss of Enki, a big complex of underground caves and chambers whose gates would be opened by the three pieces of the key, where water would be the main element and where the Spear of Destiny would be hidden.
➤ Enemies: Sergei's henchmen, animals, and supernatural entities such as animated statues.

➧ Outfit: blue shorts, orange crop top
➧ Levels' titles:
➥ Streets of Baghdad
➥ Palace of Nabuchadnezzar
➥ Etemenanki
➥ Tell Abu Shahrain
➥ Abyss of Enki

• Tomb Raider: Chronicles (Tomb Raider V Gold): Rome and Ireland
➤ Description: these sections remain the same as in Chronicles 2000; only Winston and Father Dunstan tell their stories, and at the end Von Croy is shown finding Lara's backpack in Giza. Everything takes place while Lara is in the Nubian desert with Putai and her tribe.

------------------------

UPDATE:

The aforegoing is a good idea that with adjustments (other artefact instead of the Spear of Destiny; other locations instead of New York and Russia) might be used for a new Tomb Raider game in the Classic Line: https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...d.php?t=229449

However, in hindsight I recognise that Chronicles had its reasons, and better ideas have arisen around its remastered version. Specifically, it is likely that it will officially receive expansions:

- https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...&postcount=941
- https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...postcount=1011
- https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...postcount=1099
- https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...postcount=1101

Amunet · 06-05-24, 16:14

While this idea sounds interesting, I wouldn't want it to replace the actual Chronicles remaster.

Chronicles deserves to be remastered alongside the rest of the Classics, preserving it as it was.

Also, I think you need to remember these are remasters and not remakes/re-imaginings of the classics. Something like this is way beyond the scope of the remasters and better suited for a new game like for example if they ever considered making new classic-esque games in parallel with the new AAA releases.

But as a replacement for Chronicles in the actual remastered collection, no thanks.

Mr Od · 06-05-24, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amunet

...

Also, I think you need to remember these are remasters and not remakes/re-imaginings of the classics. Something like this is way beyond the scope of the remasters and better suited for a new game like for example if they ever considered making new classic-esque games in parallel with the new AAA releases.

...

I am aware of this. I am just flying with my imagination. In a parallel universe I would have liked Tomb Raider V to have been what I wrote above.

Had I been a member of Core Design, I personally would have written it that way.

It is also true that "remaster" has various meanings: TR6 needs to be heavily reworked, so why not the miserable TR5 too? A TR IV-V-VI Remastered collection is the right opportunity to do it.

mizuno_suisei · 07-05-24, 05:22

Lost me and probably others with Chronicles was an uninspired job.. .its a great title. Can't think of anything miserable besides game breakers in the VCI level - easy fixes. If it's gonna get remastered, they won't change things drastically because it's not needed

Afaik the fandom is pretty okay with Chronicles! It was generic reviewers that reminded widespread players it was a fifth grid based tr title - implying this was lazy and non progressive.

Mr Od · 07-05-24, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizuno_suisei

Lost me and probably others with Chronicles was an uninspired job.. .its a great title. Can't think of anything miserable besides game breakers in the VCI level - easy fixes. If it's gonna get remastered, they won't change things drastically because it's not needed

Afaik the fandom is pretty okay with Chronicles! It was generic reviewers that reminded widespread players it was a fifth grid based tr title - implying this was lazy and non progressive.

The gameplay and graphics are fine. It is the plot that is uninspired and botched. The whole idea of flashback mini-adventures instead of a single big adventure set in the present time is simply idiotic.

If you have read my rewritten TR5+TR5Gold project, you will have noticed that Chronicles' levels would be preserved almost intact, although New York and Russia would be inserted into the new plot of the main game, while Rome and Ireland would constitute the Gold expansion.

Woops · 07-05-24, 23:34

may I suggest this very useful forum, they can make your dreams come true

Mr Od · 08-05-24, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woops

may I suggest this very useful forum, they can make your dreams come true

If Tomb Raider Level Editors can contribute, it would be great. However, I would prefer that it be made as part of TR IV-VI Remastered, thus as an official reworking.

deadmando9 · 08-05-24, 18:46

@ Mr. Od: Your idea is interesting, and I wouldn't mind playing a Core Era Tomb Raider game like that. The problem is that there is no real reason to remake TR Chronicles. Not to mention you'll get a lot of flack on these forums for trying to remake it.

Jackanory · 15-05-24, 12:50

The overarching story and individual setpieces are meh, but this just means that the remastering team should focus on the graphics more. I can't wait to see how they spruce up those Ireland ghouls/creatures.

**TombHackR** · 29-05-24, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Od

Tomb Raider: Chronicles was clearly an uninspired and botched job, [……], but rather on the plot level.

Was it?

I felt like Chronicles had excellent storytelling with its cutscenes, and they outsourced a real studio to make the FMVs. Especially Ireland.

Think about Tomb Raider 2 and 3 where the plot is almost non existent. Lara wants an artefact, but a bad guy also wants said artefact, so she murders a bunch of people.

06-05-24, 15:02	#1
Mr Od Member Joined: Jan 2024 Posts: 2,847	A new Tomb Raider V for TR IV-VI Remastered Idea also proposed: - In this thread: https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...d.php?t=229343 - In this post: https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...&postcount=730 – of this thread: https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...d.php?t=228661 ------------------------ Tomb Raider: Chronicles was clearly an uninspired and botched job, although not on the technical and gameplay level like AoD, but rather on the plot level. It will probably never happen, but it would be great if, in the future Tomb Raider IV-VI Remastered collection, instead of remastering Chronicles they replaced it with a new TR5 with a good plot, perhaps developing two of the four adventures already told in Chronicles into a new unified plot under a new title while preserving the other two as a Gold expansion under the old title. ------------------------ Title: Tomb Raider: The Spear of Destiny (Tomb Raider V) ✤ Training introduction FMV: it shows how Lara escaped the collapse of the Temple of Horus in Giza at the end of TR4 and was rescued by the tribe of the shamaness Putai. • Training level: Sudan — Lara is trained back to health by the shamaness Putai; then, she leaves the tribe/training area by motorbike and heads to the nearest city to board the flight to London. ➧ Outfit: classic from TR4 ➧ Level title: Nubian desert ✤ Game introduction FMV: it shows the history of the Spear of Destiny in Roman Judaea during Jesus' crucifixion: the holy spear is an ancient Mesopotamian artefact which belonged to the god Enki/Ea/Yahweh; it was stolen by the Roman army from the Temple of Enki in the ancient city of Eridu and was wielded by the Roman soldier Longinus to pierce Jesus' chest, causing the miracle of the water which confirmed that Jesus was indeed a human manifestation of Enki/Yahweh; after the miracle, Longinus returned the spear to Mesopotamian priests, who hid it in a complex of secret chambers beneath the Temple of Enki locked by a key-artefact split into three pieces; the indications of the precise whereabouts of the secret chambers are kept in the Etemenanki in Babylon, and can be revealed only by another key-artefact, the Iris. • Location 1: New York — Lara, helped by Zip, infiltrates the building of the Von Croy Industries to steal both the Iris which she and her old mentor found in Cambodia and another Roman-era Mesopotamian artefact which Von Croy found in an archaeological dig in Syria; Von Croy and his men try to thwart her, but they fail; by the end of this location, she discovers that the Iris and the other artefact, which is actually one of the three pieces of a key, are what is needed to find and open access to the secret chambers of the Spear of Destiny in present-day Iraq; she also discovers that the other two pieces of the key are, respectively, beneath the ruins of a temple in Israel and in a Nazi German submarine which sank off the coasts of Russia. ➤ Description: this section would be almost identical to its version in Chronicles 2000, with the difference that Lara would infiltrate the Von Croy Industries' building to steal both the Iris, which would be revealed to be a Roman-era Mesopotamian artefact, and one of the three pieces of the key, both needed to respectively find and open access to the secret chambers where the Spear of Destiny would be hidden. ➤ Enemies: Von Croy's security guards. ➧ Outfit: catsuit (same as in Chronicles 2000) ➧ Levels' titles: ➥ 13th floor ➥ Escape with the artefacts ➥ Red alert! • Location 2: Israel — Lara explores the area where the ruins of a Temple of Baal are located; beneath the temple are the caves where the second piece of the key was hidden by the Mesopotamian priests. Lara clashes with a Russian mafia group led by Sergei Mikhailov, who is himself on the trail of the pieces of the key. ➤ Description: with a development similar to TR1's Greece levels, in this section Lara would explore the site of Tel Lachish, from which to access complexes deeper and deeper beneath it, including the lost palace of the Judaean king Jehoshaphat, then a Temple of Baal, and eventually caves dedicated to Yahweh where she would find the second piece of the key. ➤ Enemies: animals, Sergei's henchmen, and supernatural entities such as animated statues. ➧ Outfit: gray shorts, yellow leotard ➧ Levels' titles: ➥ Tel Lachish ➥ Palace of Jehoshaphat ➥ Temple of Baal ➥ Caves of Yahweh • Location 3: Russia — Lara, helped by Charles Kane, infiltrates an old Soviet base where Sergei, with the help of Admiral Igor Yarofev, has been organising the operations to recover the third piece of the key, which he located in a sunken Nazi German submarine; in the 1940s, the Nazis were on the trail of the holy spear, and they successfully recovered a piece of the key in Iran, but it was eventually lost when the submarine which was carrying it sank. ➤ Description: this section would be very similar to its version in Chronicles 2000, with the differences that Lara would infiltrate the base and Yarofev's submarine to recover the third piece of the the key, not the holy spear itself, that the levels would be significantly expanded, with the first one introduced by an exploration part, also with a vehicle, of the Russian tundra surrounding the base in order to find a way to get into the latter, and that Sergei would not be annihilated in this section and something else would damage Yarofev's submarine. ➤ Enemies: animals in the tundra and the outdoors parts of the base, and Sergei's henchmen in the other areas. ➧ Outfit: camouflage + deep sea diving suit (same as in Chronicles 2000) ➧ Levels' titles: ➥ The Soviet base ➥ Yarofev's submarine ➥ Deepsea dive ➥ Sinking submarine • Location 4: Iraq — Lara explores the sites of the ancient cities of Babylon and Eridu in order to find the secret underground chambers where the Spear of Destiny was hidden. Sergei and his henchmen chase her, and Sergei eventually finds the holy spear before she does, but he is annihilated by the artefact's power. Lara recovers the spear and successfully escapes from the underground chambers as everything collapses around her. ➤ Description: this section would begin in Baghdad, where Lara would explore the streets on the outskirts of the city looking for a vehicle to reach the site of the ancient city of Babylon; having reached the latter, Lara would explore the ruins of the palace of the Babylonian king Nabuchadnezzar and then the ruins of the Etemenanki, the Temple of Marduk, where she would use the Iris to find the precise indications for the whereabouts of the secret chambers beneath the Temple of Enki in Eridu; then she would move to the site of the latter, nowadays yclept Tell Abu Shahrain, and ultimately would find the entrance to the Abyss of Enki, a big complex of underground caves and chambers whose gates would be opened by the three pieces of the key, where water would be the main element and where the Spear of Destiny would be hidden. ➤ Enemies: Sergei's henchmen, animals, and supernatural entities such as animated statues. ➧ Outfit: blue shorts, orange crop top ➧ Levels' titles: ➥ Streets of Baghdad ➥ Palace of Nabuchadnezzar ➥ Etemenanki ➥ Tell Abu Shahrain ➥ Abyss of Enki • Tomb Raider: Chronicles (Tomb Raider V Gold): Rome and Ireland ➤ Description: these sections remain the same as in Chronicles 2000; only Winston and Father Dunstan tell their stories, and at the end Von Croy is shown finding Lara's backpack in Giza. Everything takes place while Lara is in the Nubian desert with Putai and her tribe. ------------------------ UPDATE: The aforegoing is a good idea that with adjustments (other artefact instead of the Spear of Destiny; other locations instead of New York and Russia) might be used for a new Tomb Raider game in the Classic Line: https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...d.php?t=229449 However, in hindsight I recognise that Chronicles had its reasons, and better ideas have arisen around its remastered version. Specifically, it is likely that it will officially receive expansions: - https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...&postcount=941 - https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...postcount=1011 - https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...postcount=1099 - https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...postcount=1101 Last edited by Mr Od; 01-08-24 at 20:39.

07-05-24, 05:22	#4
mizuno_suisei Member Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 7,238	Lost me and probably others with Chronicles was an uninspired job.. .its a great title. Can't think of anything miserable besides game breakers in the VCI level - easy fixes. If it's gonna get remastered, they won't change things drastically because it's not needed Afaik the fandom is pretty okay with Chronicles! It was generic reviewers that reminded widespread players it was a fifth grid based tr title - implying this was lazy and non progressive. Last edited by mizuno_suisei; 07-05-24 at 05:24.

06-05-24, 16:14	#2
Amunet Member Joined: Jun 2018 Posts: 3,761	While this idea sounds interesting, I wouldn't want it to replace the actual Chronicles remaster. Chronicles deserves to be remastered alongside the rest of the Classics, preserving it as it was. Also, I think you need to remember these are remasters and not remakes/re-imaginings of the classics. Something like this is way beyond the scope of the remasters and better suited for a new game like for example if they ever considered making new classic-esque games in parallel with the new AAA releases. But as a replacement for Chronicles in the actual remastered collection, no thanks.

07-05-24, 23:34	#6
Woops Member Joined: Oct 2017 Posts: 1,547	may I suggest this very useful forum, they can make your dreams come true

08-05-24, 18:46	#8
deadmando9 Member Joined: Oct 2023 Posts: 1,310	@ Mr. Od: Your idea is interesting, and I wouldn't mind playing a Core Era Tomb Raider game like that. The problem is that there is no real reason to remake TR Chronicles. Not to mention you'll get a lot of flack on these forums for trying to remake it.

15-05-24, 12:50	#9
Jackanory Member Joined: Feb 2024 Posts: 567	The overarching story and individual setpieces are meh, but this just means that the remastering team should focus on the graphics more. I can't wait to see how they spruce up those Ireland ghouls/creatures.