Labyrinth church puzzle solved?

XavierVonCroy · 22-05-24, 08:10

Having rediscovered TRC this month, I solved the three carved tiles puzzle in the chapel pretty easily, and then discovered that the logic behind its solution was still a mystery in the fanbase.

(tombraiderchronicles.com says: "Until now, we have not found a logical explanation for this puzzle and probably there is not one (only by trial and error). If you find one, feel free to contact us.", while https://****************/ simply gives the answer without mentioning the logic behind).

Maybe this is outdated now, but since I didn't find a mention of the solution in tombraiderforums, I just thought I might share my hypothesis.

I cannot say for sure that the reasoning I made was the developers' intended one, but at least I think it kind of makes sense, and led me to solve it in one try.

We have one tile with a dog, and another with a human face. The middle one is less obvious, but since it looked like a generic textured surface, I assumed it represented an earthy or mineral surface. And since I had TR3's obscure puzzle in mind (the one with fish, ox, man, plant, bird) in which the solution can't be found in game mechanics with a clue or an item or something, but in mere abstract speculation, I assumed that TRC's one was the same idea of finding a hierarchy into it.

Just like I did in TR3 (digging into the thematic of the game, which is evolutionist Darwinian theory (or at least a very simplistic and outdated understanding of it), and therefore ranking the organisme from the more ""primitive"" to the more ""complex"", with plant < fish < ox/bird < human), here in TRC, since the puzzle is located in a chapel, I just thought of the Christian genesis myth: God creates the Earth, then the animals, and then Man, in this chronological order.

And it worked.

fallenangle · 22-08-24, 15:14

Interesting idea which just about fits but you'd think, logically, the switch order on the wall either left to right or (possibly) right to left would be Earth, Animals, Man.

My feeling, like the TR3 Tinnos one and the symbols in TR4 Under The Sphinx is that any explanation is a retroactive one. The switch symbols and order are random and people are attributing a meaning to it when there never was one intended.

In short it is just a lucky coincidence that there is a plausible explanation.

The mother switch puzzle is in the TR1's Midas Palace. Each combination required has a clear solution if you understand the significance of the Upsilon and Omega symbols. But even then the choice of symbols is puzzling and I simply don't buy the explanation offered in Stella's Walkthrough.

Logically it should have been Alpha and Omega or perhaps even Upsilon (U for up) and Delta (D for down).

The question is why any of these game puzzles are not clear when there is no reason for them not to be?

XavierVonCroy · 23-08-24, 09:20

I'm confused, TR4 Sphinx puzzle is just to repeat the sequences that you read in another room. There's no guessing involved. Except for the very first sequence, in which you have to reorder the symbols alphabetically, but since you grab the alphabet paper just three meters from the puzzle, it's not that random.

For TR3 and Chronicles, maybe it's a coincidence, I cannot tell. All I can tell is that it made sense to me when I found it, and it worked. If I'd tried all sequences until I find the right one, and then managed to think of an explanation to justify this right sequence, there would be no doubt that it's a retroactive explanation, but that's not how it happened.

fallenangle · 23-08-24, 12:01

Yes it is repeating sequences you may discover elsewhere but you only know that if you use the right combination first. That is pure luck or because you've used a walkthrough.

The "Scrap Of Paper" you find, supposedly a translation key, is actually as obscure as it gets. It doesn't need to be, it could be meaningful and clever but it isn't. It is a half thought out 'clue'.

https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...75&postcount=3

There's also the other half thought through switch symbol 'puzzle' in TR4 too in CITADEL GATE which is pretty much redundant as you have to pull all the switches anyway.

XavierVonCroy · 25-08-24, 08:50

I don't know, it's very subjective to say if a puzzle is too obscure or too obvious. If can speak only for myself but I find them quite obvious. I've used a walkthrough many times in Tomb Raider, a bit too often maybe, but never for these kind of riddles, and yet I've found the solution and its logic very quickly each time. And also enjoyable. Including the alphabet underneath the sphinx. The only dummy part is having to figure out that you have to look at the cavities with the laser sight (or with the binoculars I believe) but the riddle itself is ok I think. So I don't have a problem with this aspect of the game, but again, it's very subjective.

I don't remember the Citadel Gare puzzle, though.

fallenangle · 25-08-24, 13:43

The Underneath The Sphinx puzzle just doesn't make sense as I think was covered in the linked to earlier discussion.

The idea is absurd that some random ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic symbols just happened to translate into two thousand years later modern English letters with the same alphabetical order.

You can say that does not matter as the puzzle is just a self-contained intellectual one and not historically accurate. I disagree because that switch press order must have meant something to the imagined ancient Egyptians.

For instance how about a set of symbols for pharaoh, slave and animal or similar which have to pressed in order of importance. It would have made more sense and just as easy to provide a clue for that instead.

The Citadel Gate (first visit) switch non-puzzle is in the crocodile alley on the right after the 'dragon'. There is a lower area with some sarcophagi where you eventually get to a rope swing. If you look up at the face of building before going down into that area you will see switch codes high up with one partially hidden.

If I remember correctly the revolver + laser sight will expose it more but, as said, the codes are redundant.

22-05-24, 08:10	#1
XavierVonCroy Member Joined: Feb 2024 Posts: 136	Labyrinth church puzzle solved? Having rediscovered TRC this month, I solved the three carved tiles puzzle in the chapel pretty easily, and then discovered that the logic behind its solution was still a mystery in the fanbase. (tombraiderchronicles.com says: "Until now, we have not found a logical explanation for this puzzle and probably there is not one (only by trial and error). If you find one, feel free to contact us.", while https://****************/ simply gives the answer without mentioning the logic behind). Maybe this is outdated now, but since I didn't find a mention of the solution in tombraiderforums, I just thought I might share my hypothesis. I cannot say for sure that the reasoning I made was the developers' intended one, but at least I think it kind of makes sense, and led me to solve it in one try. We have one tile with a dog, and another with a human face. The middle one is less obvious, but since it looked like a generic textured surface, I assumed it represented an earthy or mineral surface. And since I had TR3's obscure puzzle in mind (the one with fish, ox, man, plant, bird) in which the solution can't be found in game mechanics with a clue or an item or something, but in mere abstract speculation, I assumed that TRC's one was the same idea of finding a hierarchy into it. Just like I did in TR3 (digging into the thematic of the game, which is evolutionist Darwinian theory (or at least a very simplistic and outdated understanding of it), and therefore ranking the organisme from the more ""primitive"" to the more ""complex"", with plant < fish < ox/bird < human), here in TRC, since the puzzle is located in a chapel, I just thought of the Christian genesis myth: God creates the Earth, then the animals, and then Man, in this chronological order. And it worked.

22-08-24, 15:14	#2
fallenangle Member Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,183	Interesting idea which just about fits but you'd think, logically, the switch order on the wall either left to right or (possibly) right to left would be Earth, Animals, Man. My feeling, like the TR3 Tinnos one and the symbols in TR4 Under The Sphinx is that any explanation is a retroactive one. The switch symbols and order are random and people are attributing a meaning to it when there never was one intended. In short it is just a lucky coincidence that there is a plausible explanation. The mother switch puzzle is in the TR1's Midas Palace. Each combination required has a clear solution if you understand the significance of the Upsilon and Omega symbols. But even then the choice of symbols is puzzling and I simply don't buy the explanation offered in Stella's Walkthrough. Logically it should have been Alpha and Omega or perhaps even Upsilon (U for up) and Delta (D for down). The question is why any of these game puzzles are not clear when there is no reason for them not to be? Last edited by fallenangle; 23-08-24 at 11:30. Reason: typos

23-08-24, 09:20	#3
XavierVonCroy Member Joined: Feb 2024 Posts: 136	I'm confused, TR4 Sphinx puzzle is just to repeat the sequences that you read in another room. There's no guessing involved. Except for the very first sequence, in which you have to reorder the symbols alphabetically, but since you grab the alphabet paper just three meters from the puzzle, it's not that random. For TR3 and Chronicles, maybe it's a coincidence, I cannot tell. All I can tell is that it made sense to me when I found it, and it worked. If I'd tried all sequences until I find the right one, and then managed to think of an explanation to justify this right sequence, there would be no doubt that it's a retroactive explanation, but that's not how it happened.

23-08-24, 12:01	#4
fallenangle Member Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,183	Yes it is repeating sequences you may discover elsewhere but you only know that if you use the right combination first. That is pure luck or because you've used a walkthrough. The "Scrap Of Paper" you find, supposedly a translation key, is actually as obscure as it gets. It doesn't need to be, it could be meaningful and clever but it isn't. It is a half thought out 'clue'. https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...75&postcount=3 There's also the other half thought through switch symbol 'puzzle' in TR4 too in CITADEL GATE which is pretty much redundant as you have to pull all the switches anyway.

25-08-24, 08:50	#5
XavierVonCroy Member Joined: Feb 2024 Posts: 136	I don't know, it's very subjective to say if a puzzle is too obscure or too obvious. If can speak only for myself but I find them quite obvious. I've used a walkthrough many times in Tomb Raider, a bit too often maybe, but never for these kind of riddles, and yet I've found the solution and its logic very quickly each time. And also enjoyable. Including the alphabet underneath the sphinx. The only dummy part is having to figure out that you have to look at the cavities with the laser sight (or with the binoculars I believe) but the riddle itself is ok I think. So I don't have a problem with this aspect of the game, but again, it's very subjective. I don't remember the Citadel Gare puzzle, though.

25-08-24, 13:43	#6
fallenangle Member Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,183	The Underneath The Sphinx puzzle just doesn't make sense as I think was covered in the linked to earlier discussion. The idea is absurd that some random ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic symbols just happened to translate into two thousand years later modern English letters with the same alphabetical order. You can say that does not matter as the puzzle is just a self-contained intellectual one and not historically accurate. I disagree because that switch press order must have meant something to the imagined ancient Egyptians. For instance how about a set of symbols for pharaoh, slave and animal or similar which have to pressed in order of importance. It would have made more sense and just as easy to provide a clue for that instead. The Citadel Gate (first visit) switch non-puzzle is in the crocodile alley on the right after the 'dragon'. There is a lower area with some sarcophagi where you eventually get to a rope swing. If you look up at the face of building before going down into that area you will see switch codes high up with one partially hidden. If I remember correctly the revolver + laser sight will expose it more but, as said, the codes are redundant.