www.tombraiderforums.com  

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Tomb Raider Series > Shadow of the Tomb Raider

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-02-20, 22:44   #11
Portugalraider
Relic Hunter
 
Portugalraider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,097
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsott View Post
You don't even know how that puzzle really looked like. Maybe it was something, that you'd figure out in matter of seconds.
Trust me, being a colour based, either they had other also fairly easy to spot clues (which would make the colour-based clue redundant, and considering they just opted to remove the puzzle instead of reworking it, they probably didn't), for me and many others alike wouldn't be a matter of seconds. Not even minutes. It would be a matter of "hopefully this stuff isn't randomized, so I can either look for the answer in a walkthrough which feels like cheating, or trial and error which feels like way too much effort for something that I should be able to figure out in seconds but am literally physically unable to, or f this game, I don't feel like playing it anymore because of something so dumb"
__________________
#StayTheF***Home
Portugalraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-20, 23:02   #12
Athukraz
Relic Hunter
 
Athukraz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Clown Manor
Posts: 7,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsott View Post
I don't know if you realized, but tons of good ideas were cut, because of these "testers".
I wonder how old are they and how much knowledge they have when it comes to videogames. It's like ppl forgot to have fun, or use their brain.
Someone playing Shadow at a closed door event didn't even know how to attach to a wall with the axes and kept falling in the spike pit right before the cozumel pyramid. Ffs.
__________________
Clown Movement 2019
Athukraz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-20, 23:04   #13
Zsott
Archaeologist
 
Zsott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: France
Posts: 1,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Portugalraider View Post
... trial and error which feels like way too much effort for something that I should be able to figure out in seconds but am literally physically unable to, or f this game, I don't feel like playing it anymore because of something so dumb"
I understand.
Also, don't get this personal, but the part I quoted, is the biggest problem in general with casuals. (Imo)
I mean, surely there was some logic behind it, and not just something random. But trial and error can be fun, as long as its solution makes sense.
For example: San Juan, I really didn't paid attention to the conversations, completely missed the pamphlet. So the final puzzle was a trial and error for me, when I played it first time... and I was pretty proud of myself for figuring it out without using any help (instinct)
Edit: I'm just bitter, that we didn't got to fight Himiko, or got the complete level of Endurance (during the storm and flashbacks)...because of the testers.

Another thing:
What version the player was playing on?
Lara's flashlight was switched on during the jaguar fight, for me that never happened. It wasn't turned on when she approached the wreckage and retrieved her gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athukraz View Post
Someone playing Shadow at a closed door event didn't even know how to attach to a wall with the axes and kept falling in the spike pit right before the cozumel pyramid. Ffs.
lmao
I just keep shaking my head, while watching the video. They are pretty much self aware, how much 'in your face' the game is...
Anyway, that could be explained, if the player was a first timer (to the franchise)... then again, that demo(?) still had the ingame texts, so I just can't imagine how is that possible.

Edit2 :
The devs saying, that last fight before the bridge (at the oilfield) is the hardest fight in the game. Really? Last time I checked, I used only two fear arrow and Lara was gone...
Also the yaaxil and Amaru says hello.

Last edited by Zsott; 01-02-20 at 23:23.
Zsott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-20, 23:32   #14
Portugalraider
Relic Hunter
 
Portugalraider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,097
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsott View Post
Also, don't get this personal, but the part I quoted, is the biggest problem in general with casuals. (Imo)
I mean, surely there was some logic behind it, and not just something random. But trial and error can be fun, as long as its solution makes sense.
For example: San Juan, I really didn't paid attention to the conversations, completely missed the pamphlet. So the final puzzle was a trial and error for me, when I played it first time... and I was pretty proud of myself for figuring it out without using any help (instinct)
Don't worry, I know it's not personal. But the bold part is important. Because you went by trial and error because you didn't collect all the clues, but still had to use your brain to find the logic. That indeed can feel rewarding at the end.

But also imagine this: you have all the clues, you completely understand the logic, you know exactly what you are supposed to do and you are a skilled enough player to perform the action necessary. Yet you still need to go for trial and error, because your eyes make it impossible to act on those clues and logic that you fully understand and otherwise would be perfectly okay to act as expected without going by trial and error. In that case, Trial and Error is not a rewarding thing, but is something that reminds you again that there are things you will always have trouble doing because of such a otherwise harmless thing that is not being able to see one or more colours.

Now, probably before scrapping the puzzle altogether, they indeed tried other solutions or hints like different shapes, that for one reason or another also did not work. But without knowing for sure, all that I have is "the game was going to have a colour-based puzzle that would most probably make the game more a chore for you to play, and not the good kind of chore". And my selfish side is going "ooof, thank god

Edit:

Well, if someone ever told me that a "Developers react to their game's speedrun" thread would end up making me have a discussion on the frustrations of living with colour blindness, I would have told that person that they were crazy.
__________________
#StayTheF***Home

Last edited by Portugalraider; 01-02-20 at 23:37.
Portugalraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-20, 23:45   #15
Zsott
Archaeologist
 
Zsott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: France
Posts: 1,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Portugalraider View Post
But also imagine this: you have all the clues, you completely understand the logic, you know exactly what you are supposed to do and you are a skilled enough player to perform the action necessary. Yet you still need to go for trial and error, because your eyes make it impossible to act on those clues and logic that you fully understand and otherwise would be perfectly okay to act as expected without going by trial and error.
That is on completely on the developers, then.
So far the only game I know that has help for colorblind people, is Witcher 3.
Going by that, isn't impossible implement it in way, that would make it accessible/solvable for everyone...

In the end, as much as I want to have more puzzles, I know it's better this way, since the combat is already an issue (the amount of it) , I can imagine that more of them might have broke the balance of the game.
Zsott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-20, 00:05   #16
Portugalraider
Relic Hunter
 
Portugalraider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,097
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsott View Post
That is on completely on the developers, then.
So far the only game I know that has help for colorblind people, is Witcher 3.
Going by that, isn't impossible implement it in way, that would make it accessible/solvable for everyone...
To be fair, considering all the accessibility options SotTR has, I am sure that the developers would have added a "colour blind mode" if necessary. But the best solution still is, in my opinion, to develop the game with those issues in mind from the get go (because for things that are not HUD elements or stuff like that, those modes usually aren't really that helpful).

Like how Splatoon, which is all based around colours, have the competing teams play using contrasting colours with different "gray scale" values (don't know the correct term, but basically if you gray scale a screenshot of the splatoon, one colour would be light grey, while the other would be dark grey).
__________________
#StayTheF***Home

Last edited by Portugalraider; 02-02-20 at 00:06.
Portugalraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-20, 04:17   #17
New Dwight
Professor
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,716
Default

The official way to lift the outfit restriction.
New Dwight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-20, 11:14   #18
tomee
Tomb Raider
 
tomee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hungary
Posts: 15,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by malferink View Post
Also, is this the version 1.00?
It's not, but it's not up to date either. They released a patch 1 or 2 months after release that fixed both airwalking and skywalking, so speedrunners have to manually downgrade to an older version where the glitches are still possible.

I kind of raise an eyebrow at this. It's not like these glitches would occur in the game unless you intentionally tried to perform them. There were more glaring glitches and issues that I felt should've enjoyed higher priority.
__________________
My signature was removed because it was vulgar. Now I can't choose my own till March 2014. If I edit this one I will be suspended till March 2014.
tomee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-20, 12:53   #19
paulojr_mam
Archaeologist
 
paulojr_mam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Portugalraider View Post
It would be a matter of "hopefully this stuff isn't randomized, so I can either look for the answer in a walkthrough which feels like cheating, or trial and error which feels like way too much effort for something that I should be able to figure out in seconds but am literally physically unable to, or f this game, I don't feel like playing it anymore because of something so dumb"
What about using SI for the colorblind-unftriendly puzzles only?
__________________
#BringClassicLaraCroftBack - a Twitter campaign.
paulojr_mam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-20, 12:58   #20
Portugalraider
Relic Hunter
 
Portugalraider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,097
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulojr_mam View Post
What about using SI for the colorblind-unftriendly puzzles only?
Again, it's the same thing as trial and error: you're not using it because you don't have a clue of what to do, you're using it because even if you know exactly what do do, you still can't do it.

Besides, I don't think SI would really work in this case considering you need to be perfectly still and on the ground to use it.
__________________
#StayTheF***Home
Portugalraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.