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Old 06-12-21, 19:27   #1
Felix Kroft
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Default TR1 Lighting - Need A Guide

Hi guys, i suck at lighting in DXTRE3D, can someone show me how to create moody lighting in multiple rooms? What should be the starting value?

It always looks off in my levels, because i don't know how strong the lights should be, and how to place light spheres close to each other when joining two rooms, it creates weird spots, uneven lit rooms etc

I had similar problem with objects, always too bright, or too dark, Core didn't experiment that much with lighting in TR1, my favourite level of darkness is 21

Anyone expierienced who can guide me?
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Old 07-12-21, 13:39   #2
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Probably the best hint we could give you it's to switch to Tomb Editor as fast as possible

There also isn't a general rule to achieve what you said, because Dxtre3d lighting is "relative" to the ambience value you chose rather than being a fixed value; so, since light bulbs don't affect nearby room, your best bet is to use the same or similar base value (like the 21 you said) in both rooms and then trying to make a transition by placing the same light bulb on both sides (rooms) of the portal while still aiming for the lighting you wanted in the first place... it's pretty hard to explain, it's the sort of things that you need to "get to" with trial and error and experimenting, really

But again, Tomb Editor is far better even regarding the lighting alone. The only reason I'm, still, not using it full time it's because I'm accustomed to dxtre3d and I have some projects to finish, since I can't really import them in TE (that's another reason to switch editors asap: to not waste time rebuilding stuff)
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Old 07-12-21, 14:00   #3
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Doesn't Dxtre3d also have the issue with lights crashing the game when Lara passes the center of the light bulb? I remember this was a case with either TR1 or TR2.
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Old 07-12-21, 14:19   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesum View Post
Doesn't Dxtre3d also have the issue with lights crashing the game when Lara passes the center of the light bulb? I remember this was a case with either TR1 or TR2.
It happens Only on TR2
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Old 07-12-21, 14:56   #5
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Thanks guys, but i want to work with DXTRE3D mainly because i'm only interested in creating TR 1 - 2 - 3 engine levels.

DXTRE3D causes a lot of problems along the way, but it is relatively easy to build a level there, and i just couldn't get other level editors to work properly, and when i finally tried Tomb Editor, i wouldn't let me work with PHD levels and so on.

I have a lot of classic custom textures, objects etc. for my projects, so i really can't import all of them to other editor : /

And i just prefer DXTRE3D.

By the way, i'm trying to make levels for PSX version of Tomb Raider, so i'm sticking to quick, and easy methods.
So i don't want exaggerate with level design. Limits.

Oh and i'm shocked about that light sphere thing with TR2.

I think i understand what's the problem here, and most of my rooms have the same ambience, but somehow, i'm messing it up when it comes to lights between rooms, it drives me crazy sometimes. Especially when low rooms are stacked on each other, it looks rather grotesque in game.
Most of the coolest lighting effects that i got, were done by pure luck, and coincidence

My main complaint about DXTRE3D though, is that the enemies can't walk higher than one click, stairs are just too much for them

Feel free to post further suggestions.
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Old 07-12-21, 16:15   #6
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im sorry but Tomb Editor already build TR1,2,3 levels with a better lighting and without light crash on TR2...i higly suggest you use TE than DXTRE3D because is a very outdated tool with several problems which already you see. but TE have constant updates to fix any bugs for next releases or add stuff...and also DXTRE3D have a portal limit bug,if you reach it game crash infinity what not happen on TE...welll it's your choose but we're warned you about any possible bugs....

making a PSX game is more harder than you think...mostly of time stuff get buggy since editor ins't the core design one was made propely for PC and PSX support...and you need build on vanilla exes with all ****ed up limits...build on TR1,2 with a 2080 text info is a painful...and TR1MAIN/2 is impossible import to PSX.....
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Old 07-12-21, 16:48   #7
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If Felix wants to stick to DXTRE3D, then that's his decision, and all this "TE is better at X, Y, and Z" is not really helpful. If he did want a pros and cons of TE, I'd suggest speaking to Danath, who is currently making the switch and building TR2 levels (I don't know what you're building currently Topixtor, I guess you can probably offer that too). But that's not what Felix is asking for at this time.

I don't really have anything else to add because I barely know TE, and I certainly don't know DXTRE3D. I just feel it's worth the reminder that pushing people towards something when they are not interested, however well-intentioned the pushing may be, can be the fastest way to put them off that thing entirely.
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Old 07-12-21, 18:44   #8
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Well of course it is his decision! In fact I pointed out just that, it would probably be better to "start" already with TE, but I still gave my advices on how to manage lighting in there.

About the psx thing: I know nothing about it, but I still know that it's even more limited and buggy EXPECIALLY with dxtre3d, wich has problems regarding the texture limits (textures are sometime doubled, I believe). But well I still support you trying to do something specifically for it (I mean, the levels will anyway work on pc if the psx project fails due to limitations, so no work should be lost in theory).

Anyway Dxtre3d is still the most "plug-and-play" editor out there. You can still create awesome projects with it, and there probably still are some niche tricks/features that aren't available at all in TE. Good luck with it!

(I guess I could send you the project files from my 2 relased levels? There are close to 0 light cracks in them, they could help you understand something more. But dextre3d alone doesn't let you inspect the details of each light bulb, don't remember if trview lets you do that, but at least you can see how I have placed them, I guess)
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Old 07-12-21, 19:08   #9
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Hehe thank You, don't worry JVRY, i appreciate, but i'm not a snowflake to get upset so easily, i really appreciate that i got a couple of answers already.
It's cool.

And thank You Topixtor, but i think that just a screenshot would be ok, i know more or less how to set light spheres, but i thought that maybe someone more skilled would know some neat tricks, that's it, i will probably continue to discover how it works, gradually as i test my levels.

I'm aware of all the PSX limitations, textures aren't problem at all.
Just the way DXTRE3D stores some data, it makes the game think that some rooms require more memory to run or something.

This portal limit room / crash bug also made my blood boil in the beginning, now i'm working my way around it.

And when i tried to build a level using Tomb Editor, i couldn't export it as a TR1 PHD format, for some reason, and it was way too complicated, so i'll stick to DXTRE3D, but also i saw, and played many levels TR1 - TR2 - TR3 made all in DXTRE3D and everything was dandy, and ran well.
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Old 08-12-21, 00:55   #10
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Here are the two "tricks" I usually do to have a smooth (or so) lighting transition (click to enlarge):

Case 1: I place the light bulb on the sector directly before the portal, then I take him up into the wall; I did that even without knowing about the TR2 crash (in fact you can see other "free" lights in the room that could potential crash the game; you don't need to worry about that for TR1, luckly!). This ensures, after finding the right intensity/size of the bulb, that the wall above the portal doesn't produce the "darker or brighter than the rest" effect. Provided the two rooms have a different base value, usually a low intensity here works the best when there are no other light sources near the portal on the other side, otherwise it's trial and error until you find the same intensity and you may need to rearrange the bulbs.

This kind of placement, at least in TR2, also allows some light to "penetrate" from the wall: hence, I placed a light texture on the inside of the room, adding a believable light source;



Case 2: I place the light bulb on the portal sector; technically that sector would be in the nearby room, but if you don't draw it in the editor you can freely place the light here and it will only affect your active room.
In case it doesn't make you do that, there is a general way of placing light inside walls: place it normally, then shift+click into the desired wall to move it there.
This was extremely useful in that room, because it's supposed to be almost completely dark: by placing it functionally outside of the room, you still light up the "exterior" wall that would otherwise be pitch black, as well as the floor below creating a morbid but shorter transition into the darkness, while said wall "blocks" the bulb from affecting anything in the actual room.



When the area of effect of light bulbs collide, they may create abnormal shadows and such. That's why, in cases like that, usually the size it's always on 1 (in the second example, a bigger size could make the light penetrate the wall too). However, having a little size could also fail to reach the floor below; in that case it's, once again, trial and error, and often placing a small bulb under the floor can solve it without creating too much shadow.

Hope it can help, but keep in mind TR1 could act differently; I started building a TR1 level once but never got to the lighting.
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