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Old 22-01-20, 13:02   #31
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Originally Posted by CroftManiac05 View Post
Exactly, it's the best way to provide replay value instead of putting 25648 collectables (yes Underworld I'm talking about you).
Not the only way, though. For example, I think a Tomb Raider game with some sort of sequence breaking could be very neat, especially if the story adapted itself to such sequence breaking.
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Old 22-01-20, 13:07   #32
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I don't think I've ever played a game where you can solve puzzles in more than one way. I fear that they might feel less like puzzles and that I'll accidentaly solve them in an unintended way and feel like I've cheated, and won't feel the same satisfaction. Also, that seems much harder to do dev-wise. BotW was used as an example, but that is Nintendo, how many other companies do puzzles like that? These complex things like multiway puzzles and sequence breaking on top of making multi-room puzzles, which is already complex, are something I don't trust these devs to do, because they haven't proven themselves up to the task (to me).
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Old 22-01-20, 14:31   #33
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Oh heck at first I thought someone started a thread referring to the next TR as Tomb Raider 4 and I almost RAGED
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Old 22-01-20, 14:58   #34
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Oh heck at first I thought someone started a thread referring to the next TR as Tomb Raider 4 and I almost RAGED
What if the next game is a remake of TR4?
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Old 22-01-20, 14:59   #35
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Oh heck at first I thought someone started a thread referring to the next TR as Tomb Raider 4 and I almost RAGED
I agree.

Tomb Raider 4 as a title should be deemed to Shadow’s sequel.
The Classic game The Last Revelation could be called TRIV as short.
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Old 22-01-20, 17:28   #36
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I personally prefer TR1-3 style of completing a level, but I wouldn't mind TR4 style either. Some of the backtracking in that game was a little tedious, but then again, so was it in TR3 with all the keys and doors and what not, if that can be considered "backtracking". As long as what they make is good, going back to past areas isn't a problem. Too bad Tomb Raider don't have competent developers who will make any of this happen.

They need to ditch the reboot foundation though, and stop making nonsensical hubs, like Paieteeteee. More than anything that's just a place to waste your time, and that's what we don't need.
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Old 22-01-20, 18:06   #37
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Personally I liked some hubs, San Juan and Kuwak Yaqu? were okay, but Paititi was... Damn when I was doing my deadly obsession run I had to take a day break when I reached Paititi.
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Old 23-01-20, 05:22   #38
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The Last Revelation definitely has some great gameplay ideas:
-rotating rooms
-ancient games to open paths
-being chased by minotaur and locusts
-fights on top of a moving train
-unkillable mummies (except with explosions )
-walking on water after mixing the in magic dust (?)
-logic puzzles like the snake fire room
-car chases through a desert town
-a phoney tomb adventure (the mummy surprise still cracks me up) and it reminds that Egypt is still currently inhabited, not just a country full of empty deserts and ancient ruins.

And of course, the apocalypse creeping into the atmosphere with every new area was done superbly. I'ma link to the thread you just opened Charmed.. it vindicates this thread but I thought these thoughts were better placed here. Hopefully the article in that one is read and makes sense to some of the higher ups at SE!

https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...70#post8167070
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Old 25-01-20, 21:49   #39
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Adding a bit to Kapu's post, I think big part of why the hubs work better in TR2013 than in RotTR and SotTR is that they also actually acted as sort of levels, and not as large in-between areas, and the larger ones changed/opened up according to how you progressed in the story. Both sequels do have hubs that work like that (Siberian wilderness and Kitezh for RotTR, Peruvian Jungle for SotTR), but that element is lost in the other ones, making the hubs feel a bit like padding instead of crucial gameplay elements.
Agreed! There is a definite start-to-finish feeling in the TR2013 hubs, like you'd find in traditional levels. Maybe it's because there are those linear sections between some of hubs, like Mountain Base to Base Exterior for example (Lara climbs out of the building through that tight hallway filled with pipes). She can't run go through that tunnel again to get back to the Mountain Base, she can only fast travel there.

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Wow @Kapu that is a great, insightful post. I agree that the best way is to not allow retreading to previous hubs. It's the most "TR" way.
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If [the hubs] were as big as they are but worked like levels, it would be good. If they were like they are but much smaller, then they would at least be inoccuous. Instead, they're obnoxious huge spaces with nothing to do other than senseless optional combat, unnecessary NPC conversation and meaningless collecting. They're single-handedly the worst part of TReboots gameplay loop.
Firstly, thanks! And yes, it's just like Portugalraider said, they feel like padding. Not that optional content is bad, but the smaller scope of the hubs in TR2013 was ideal, imo. The storyline brought you to most parts of each hub anyway, so none of the collectable hunting felt superfluous. They're treading this really fine line with exploration, it seems. I love to explore in games, just to see what there is to see. But when you add a myriad of collectables to find, it sort of removes the fun in exploring. It's not exploration for the sake of it, it's a task: a mapped area with lots of "x marks the spot" included.

---
I almost wonder if getting rid of the map would make a difference. Or at least having separate maps for different locations. Right now everything is smushed together, right? Imagine a reboot game ala TR4: your game is made of up different sections/hubs: Valley of the Kings, Karnak, Alexandria, etc. Rather than putting all those locations on a single map, split them up. Valley of the Kings has its own map, as does Karnak, as does Alexandria. Get rid of the campsites and let Lara access her inventory whenever, wherever. Let her travel back to previous hubs, but keep them separate from the current location.

If the semi-open world must continue, maybe this could be a good compromise. It splits up the game into a more level-like structure (but without the linearity), you maintain that forward momentum (and the rewarding feeling of completion that comes with traditional start-to-finished levels), and your game feels much larger because not everything is cramped together. Thoughts?

Last edited by Kapu; 25-01-20 at 21:50.
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Old 28-01-20, 12:04   #40
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I'm surprised TR4 was so popular among fans. It was sooo boring to me. And I didn't like the hub system myself.

I feel it adds absolutely nothing to the experience. But that's also because I think the level design in TR4 left much to be desired. Perhaps if TR4 was set in several locations that would be different.....but Egypt had such a bland color pallette...

Also, the story was very weak even when compared to TR1/3 for me. I never felt emotionally invested in the sequence of events, so I didn't feel like I was progressing in an interesting adventure.

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