www.tombraiderforums.com

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Community Forums > General Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 31-08-19, 17:36   #21
redfox45
Archaeologist
 
redfox45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Temple of Xian
Posts: 1,632
Default

I actually didn't give TR1 a real chance until after Anniversary. I'd played it plenty but for a long time it was just the downgrade of 2 which was my introduction to the series. It wasn't like 2 so it kinda sucked in my eyes for a long long time.

Not until quite recently did I finally appreciate it for what it was and play through it properly from start to finish.

It's hard to say how much nostalgia still played in my new found appreciation of TR1 and how much of it was objectively appreciating how great it still is to this day. But a lot of it had to do with what I yearned for evolving with age.
e.g for years I wanted a TR2 remake more than anything but now the idea just sound horrendous to me.

(Edit: I take that back, I just listened to Dean Kopris new upload and OMGGG!!!!)

Last edited by redfox45; 31-08-19 at 18:02.
redfox45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-19, 18:28   #22
laracroftswest
Professor
 
laracroftswest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,968
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LateRaider View Post
I finally gave this a watch and despite the length, I don't regret it one bit. It's a true analysis of TRI and classic TR in general. Even the small 4-minute comparison to TR2013 at the end was great and didn't dilute the meaning. I recommend everyone to watch this!
Glad you enjoyed it! His editing skills along with how he explicates his opinion is superb.

Quote:
The video is full of bias, which is the main issue. The bias could have stemmed from nostalgia, it might not have. But it's just a fact that something that you loved in your formative years would be fondly remembered into maturity. How many people have you seen say "Classic Lara is the best" but they actually mean they played Tomb Raider: Legend a few times back in 2006? How many people have you seen say "Classic Lara was better" but they actually mean the first Angelina Jolie film?

It's really telling that this dude doesn't know what he's talking about (And possibly didn't even replay the game like he claimed) when he not only steals other people's footage, but makes outlandish claims like "Lara will give little hints on if she can grab a ledge by using her body language." No she doesn't. One of the beauties of classic TR is Lara will stand there and do absolutely nothing unless you press a button. Oh, and let's not forget how his video has clear fallacies in and of itself. As I said earlier, he bitches about how Survivor TR "did the same thing three times in a row." Core Design literally used the same exact engine from 1996 to 2000 for five games. That's the biggest evidence of being blinded by nostalgia, or at the very least willfully ignorant, possibly because it doesn't suit his narrative.

And yes, what he did was a bad test. Especially when he didn't go into the detail he promised. Comparing TRI and SotTR should've, you know, actually compared the two games, not just lauded TRI in a half-assed manner. It would've been actually made some sense to contrast how Core Lara reacts to disasters she causes and helping people, vs. how Survior Lara does it. (TR:TLR vs. SotTR would be a better comparison, maybe.)

TRI does still hold up today. It's one of my favorites too, ranking in at #4 on my list. (And only because I've played it so many times that it's gotten somewhat tiresome.) It's an amazing game that is truly distilled essence of Tomb Raider, and honestly, each succeeding entry dilutes that essence somewhat.

My point was not to **** on one of your favorite games, which I'm thinking now is the reason why you came at me like you did. My point was to highlight how awful and biased this video is. If you want a good TRI review that is focused entirely on TRI that A. Actually has a point and B. Doesn't shamelessly steal others' footage, watch "Tomb Raider: The Perfect Horror Game" by PGunnii, which laracroftswest posted earlier.
This is also excellently said.

To highlight, if we take TR1-3 and compare it to Reboot, Rise, and Shadow I would argue the former is far "more of the same" compared to the latter. That doesn't mean that I don't think the classics are better as a whole than the Reboot trilogy, because I do, but let's be real about what it is. Shadow and the Reboot are hardly the same in terms of what's actually in the game. One contains literally rounds of combat in one area whereas the other doesn't even attempt that. One has decently complex tombs and puzzles/traversal required to progress where another has optional "tombs" that hardly challenge the player. Sure, these games have the same control scheme, but so do 1-3.

As you also noted, I highly recommend people watch PGunnii's video. If someone's gonna take a deep dive into a game, that's how you do it.
__________________
Like a moth to a flame burned by the fire...
laracroftswest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-19, 18:30   #23
Ellioft
Professor
 
Ellioft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: France
Posts: 3,058
Default

There's also Steeve of Waar videos who are good. ^^
__________________
Whatever I do with my life. The moon remains constant in the sky.
Ellioft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-19, 18:37   #24
laracroftswest
Professor
 
laracroftswest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,968
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellioft View Post
There's also Steeve of Waar videos who are good. ^^
Definitely!
__________________
Like a moth to a flame burned by the fire...
laracroftswest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-19, 21:55   #25
LateRaider
Archaeologist
 
LateRaider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Queen of TRF
Posts: 2,144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by laracroftswest View Post
Glad you enjoyed it! His editing skills along with how he explicates his opinion is superb.
it was probably the best tomb raider video i've ever seen in my life. if he'd do reviews for later entries in the same style, i'd be in love.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laracroftswest View Post
This is also excellently said.

To highlight, if we take TR1-3 and compare it to Reboot, Rise, and Shadow I would argue the former is far "more of the same" compared to the latter. That doesn't mean that I don't think the classics are better as a whole than the Reboot trilogy, because I do, but let's be real about what it is. Shadow and the Reboot are hardly the same in terms of what's actually in the game. One contains literally rounds of combat in one area whereas the other doesn't even attempt that. One has decently complex tombs and puzzles/traversal required to progress where another has optional "tombs" that hardly challenge the player. Sure, these games have the same control scheme, but so do 1-3.
thank you very much. and i definitely agree with you. the survivor trilogy feels like a natural evolution. we go to progressively harder puzzles and more reintroduced concepts like sprinting, deep dive swimming, etc. with more and more stealth being introduced and ramped up. it's this in part that i owe thanks to feeling like survivor lara had a good character arc overall, because you feel it in the mechanics.

i do understand that the survivor trio have shared story beats. that is stale. but the gameplay clearly evolves phenomenally with each game

core lara's initial trio were kind of all over the place tbh. the way the levels got bigger did not feel natural. nor did the locales make sense; they just sort of did whatever with those. speaking strictly of the ps1 versions, the difficulty is all mostly based around the save systems, too. tr1 had thoughtfully-placed save crystals that many fans still clamor over. tr2 did away with that and upped the cheapness factor of traps and enemies, since it now has free saving. tr3? it increased the cheap shots and brought back limited saves. it's abhorrent.
__________________
Undisputed Gayest King of Pierrson, voted most iconic member of TRF

Last edited by LateRaider; 02-09-19 at 16:22.
LateRaider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-19, 02:05   #26
laracroftswest
Professor
 
laracroftswest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,968
Default

TR3's save system on the PS1 is pretty bleak. Given the messy saving and the terrible lighting on 21st century TVs, TR3 on PC is the way to go.
__________________
Like a moth to a flame burned by the fire...
laracroftswest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-19, 12:07   #27
redfox45
Archaeologist
 
redfox45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Temple of Xian
Posts: 1,632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by laracroftswest View Post
TR3's save system on the PS1 is pretty bleak. Given the messy saving and the terrible lighting on 21st century TVs, TR3 on PC is the way to go.
I couldn't do that now, the gamble of when to cash out a crystal gave it an element of danger and excitement that belongs to TR3 for me now.
Playing with infinite saves would feel like cheating.

Last edited by redfox45; 01-09-19 at 12:08.
redfox45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-19, 04:43   #28
sheepman23
Relic Hunter
 
sheepman23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 8,661
Default

While I agree with the sentiment of his video, I don't care for The Critical Drinker's channel in general for a variety of reasons which have already been brought up in this thread. And, regardless of those things, the take here isn't a hot one; it's already been done a hundred times, and usually with much more thorough analysis than this.
sheepman23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-19, 02:02   #29
Tyrannosaurus
Relic Hunter
 
Tyrannosaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hell Creek, Montana, Late Cretaceous
Posts: 6,826
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LateRaider View Post
So you'd also call it a personal favorite of yours? Thereby meaning you'd probably prefer it over any other TR game?'
My previous post was unintentionally misleading on this point. The main reason I played TR1 more than any other title is because it was the only entry in the series that I actually had access to for a two-year time span, and it was still available even when some of the other TR games were unplayable on my system for one reason or another. It is certainly within my top three, but I'm not sure exactly where I would place it. TR2 and TR4, for me at least, give TR1 a run for it's money, and while I'm certainly not praising the gameplay or state of AOD, I did admire its story and ambition a great deal, though I'm so conflicted about it I would be at a loss as to where it goes on any definitive ranking of the series.

Quote:
"Classic Lara is the best" but they actually mean they played Tomb Raider: Legend a few times back in 2006? How many people have you seen say "Classic Lara was better" but they actually mean the first Angelina Jolie film?
It's irritating, for sure, but even Liana Kerzner does this. In her video and essay on the TR series and her general disapproval of reboot Lara, she considers Core and Crystal Lara to be the same character. I do not. And while Angelina Jolie Lara is certainly another continuity all together, I can at least say that Jolie understood the essence of Lara's character better than Crystal did.

Quote:
It's really telling that this dude doesn't know what he's talking about (And possibly didn't even replay the game like he claimed) when he not only steals other people's footage, but makes outlandish claims like "Lara will give little hints on if she can grab a ledge by using her body language." No she doesn't. One of the beauties of classic TR is Lara will stand there and do absolutely nothing unless you press a button.
I think he's referring to the moments in which Lara will automatically look at something the designers want the player to see, or misinterpreting her grasp animation on a failed jump as a subtle hint to the player.

Quote:
And yes, TR is a multiverse; you'd better not start trying to "school me" on how Core Lara, Top Cow Lara, Jolie Lara, and Legend/L.C. Series/Revisioned Lara are all the same person, because they're just not. The series has been a multiverse since the first Witchblade/Tomb Raider comic in 1997.
I was never in that camp to begin with.

Quote:
I literally said that in my first post: "I take other issues with this video, but I'm going to leave it there or else this post will lose its objectivity." My follow-up post contains the subjective issues I take with this video.
Right, but it seems you're taking issue with this guy acting the part of his online persona. It's like calling out the Harry Pinkett reviews on RedLetterMedia for being gross and sexist. It kind of misses the point.
__________________
By these jaws I rule!

Last edited by Tyrannosaurus; 09-09-19 at 02:11.
Tyrannosaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-19, 03:18   #30
tomblover
Tomb Raider
 
tomblover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 24,535
Default

So far, 90% of this video is just parroting surface-level observations that have been made about a million times before. I'm glad he at least likes TR1 so much, but this is close to a note-for-note remake of Caddicarus' TR1 review.

I love that he complains about following a waypoint marker in SOTTR, too - in that three-minute prologue before he gets to what I think is meant to be the point of the video? Should've turned off Survival Instincts, scrub.

EDIT: I really hate the TR fanbase, now that I think about it...

Like, people in this community 100% think they have galaxy brains just because they like classic TR - and we've got casuals doing it now too, as the reboot series has become stale, like every ****ing instance of this franchise ever has.

You guys aren't special! Cry me a river, build a bridge, and do a running jump over it!

Literally, the only times TR has done #that has been with Lara Croft GO, and I suppose GOL before that. AOD would've counted as well, were it to have been released in a finished state as intended.

The rest has been nothing but more of the same, with slight alterations to justify your average non-gamer (starting with TRL in 2006, when gaming properly broke into the mainstream, and games started to be made for people who didn't really play them) spending their money on it.
__________________
"You're like an old film reel, kissin' me when the crowd can watch."

Last edited by tomblover; 09-09-19 at 03:31.
tomblover is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 16:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.