Tomb Raider III: UNappreciation thread

Tomb Raidering · 12-04-20, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomb Raidering

*PTSD intensifies* Ugh, should I also create a TRIII UNappreciation thread?

All those traps and complex level design... >.<

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ward Dragon

If you want to

I definitely agree about the random deaths. I played on PC with save-anywhere and I found the trial-and-error aspect frustrating. If I had played on PS1 with the save crystals, I never would have finished the game. I do love the atmosphere and general design of the India and South Pacific levels though, so I'm glad I played on PC and was able to finish it.(

__________________________

• Unforgiving level design with all the cruel traps.
• Save crystals on the PS1 version. Why did they return?
• Literally total darkness on the PS1 version.
• PS1-exclusive effects like footprints and echo.
• Getting ripped off your weapons (+ammos) and medipacks in Nevada. A nightmare for first-time players who selected Nevada last.
• Lud’s Gate.
• The pink blood.
• The story. Artifacts scattered around the world, someone hires you to find them, that someone betrays you and takes away the artifacts, and finally that someone’s a supernatural being. TR1 or TR3? Both.
• The kayak. Oh lord help us!
• Plus the spike traps whilst you’re trying to control the kayak.
• The monkeys that turn into enemies in the second level for no reason.

Greenapple968 · 13-04-20, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomb Raidering

• Unforgiving level design with all the cruel traps.
• Save crystals on the PS1 version. Why did they return?
• Literally total darkness on the PS1 version.
• PS1-exclusive effects like footprints and echo.
• Getting ripped off your weapons (+ammos) and medipacks in Nevada. A nightmare for first-time players who selected Nevada last.
• Lud’s Gate.
• The pink blood.
• The story. Artifacts scattered around the world, someone hires you to find them, that someone betrays you and takes away the artifacts, and finally that someone’s a supernatural being. TR1 or TR3? Both.
• The kayak. Oh lord help us!
• Plus the spike traps whilst you’re trying to control the kayak.
• The monkeys that turn into enemies in the second level for no reason.

But TR3 is my favourite in the series.

There are a lot of traps in TR3 but that's how it's supposed to be; traps are one of the main parts of the Tomb Raider games. TR3 is considered to be one of the harder TR games, but it's also one of the more appreciated TR games.

I've always played TR3 on the PS1 and I did struggle to maintain enough savegame crystals during my first playthrough of the game, but then I learnt to preserve them better and I haven't had any issues ever since. I prefer the save system in TR3 to the one in TR1; at least in TR3 you have the option of saving where you want, even if there is a limit as to how many times you can save.

The darkness was a problem but I managed to resolve this by changing the brightness settings on my TV. Also, there are flares that can help with the darker areas, it's just a shame that the flares don't last as long as they do in TR2.

The loss of you guns, ammo and healthpacks probably is annoying for people. Although, the best thing would probably be to do Nevada straight after India; that way you don't lose as much and you have the rest of the game to re-stock on everything. You do also lose your weapons in TR1's Natla's Mines and TR2's Offshore Rig, but the difference is that you only lose your weapons. You do also lose all of your items after completing every section in Chronicles, but I suppose it makes sense seeing as each section is years apart.

Lud's Gate is one of TR3's downfalls in my opinion, especially the underwater section. But if it's any consolation, the mini-sub does make the underwater section a bit more manageable.

Willard was a bitch for betraying us, but that's a common thing when it comes to Tomb Raider. Lara betrays Von Croy in Chronicles by stealing the Iris from him whereas Von Croy and Ahmed both turn against Lara in Last Revelation after seemingly being on her side, initially. Encountering mutated freaks/creatures is a common trend in the Tomb Raider games.

I'm not keen on the kayak, but I suppose it makes sense that it's hard to control since you are using it on raging waters.

The monkeys in TR3 aren't exactly a threat; they're weak and easy to kill. The most annoying thing about them is that they steal items from the ground and then you have the job of taking them from the monkeys.

**ANoDE** · 13-04-20, 13:05

How dare you touch that masterpiece!

Just kidding, you make a valid point there. TR3 can be an unforgiving and annoying annoying piece of ... gaming software. I don't even want to imagine playing it without save-anywhere feature.

All in all I do love it though.

Greenapple968 · 13-04-20, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANoDE

How dare you touch that masterpiece!

Just kidding, you make a valid point there. TR3 can be an unforgiving and annoying annoying piece of ... gaming software. I don't even want to imagine playing it without save-anywhere feature.

All in all I do love it though.

TR3 is regarded as being one of the harder Tomb Raider games. I personally don't feel that way. But at the end of the day, I don't think that the quality of games should be determined by how difficult or unforgiving they might be.

Mek · 14-04-20, 07:09

The following characteristics of Tomb Raider III you listed are advantages for me:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomb Raidering

• Unforgiving level design with all the cruel traps.
• Save crystals on the PS1 version. Why did they return?
• PS1-exclusive effects like footprints and echo.
• Getting ripped off your weapons (+ammos) and medipacks in Nevada. A nightmare for first-time players who selected Nevada last.
• Lud’s Gate.

I haven't played the PS1 version so I haven't seen the exclusive effects yet. I am happy that I haven't experienced all in TR3 and that there is still something new I may discover in this game.

As regards the monkeys that turn into enemies in Temple Ruins, I think that the possible explanation is that the level designer thought that probably most people would attack the last monkey in Jungle (the one that steals the key to complete the level) so they made them hostile in the next level (maybe for technical reasons they couldn't carry the information whether the monkeys were attacked to the next level). Or maybe just the level designer wanted to make Temple Ruins harder or wanted the player to be surprised.

TR-Freak · 14-04-20, 07:51

I replayed TR3 recently on PSX. And except for the Level Design I find the game quite okay.
I didn't have problems with save crystals. saving once or twice in a level is already enough.
What I didn't like was lots of the forced damege

Mek · 14-04-20, 08:00

For me the game is too easy with unlimited saves and crystals restoring health on PC. This is the reason why I consider the save crystals on PS1 an advantage (although I haven't played the PS1 version yet as I've mentioned in my previous post so I don't know the exact experience that the save crystals give).

Greenapple968 · 14-04-20, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by TR-Freak

I replayed TR3 recently on PSX. And except for the Level Design I find the game quite okay.
I didn't have problems with save crystals. saving once or twice in a level is already enough.
What I didn't like was lots of the forced damege

Forced damage isn't exclusive to TR3; other TR games have levels where the loss of health is unavoidable. Obvious examples would include Wreck Of The Maria Doria and The Deck; both levels within TR2.

Caesum · 14-04-20, 11:12

Finally a thread this game deserves.

Honestly, I know a lot of people love it, but omg I find this game even worse than TRAOD or TR5.

Yes, it has some really cool locations, like first level of India, Aldwych, Coastal Village or Antarctica. But the entire rest of the game just screams horrible art direction and questionable design choices.

I absolutely hate the ****y difficulty level of TR3 traps. I know people crave for hard games that are challenging, personally I think TR3 is not challenging in a logical kind of way. Most of its traps are basically hit and miss while reloading until you get it right eventually. The game's traps are unforgiving to the point of punishing you for not knowing something the game never gave you a hint about.
I also really hate the design of some of the levels. TR3 is the definition of chaos. Most of the rooms just don't have any function apart from being an obstacle, the levels are not believable at all. It's just a maze of random rooms. While it's okay in jungle-like levels of India or South Pacific, it's just horrible in modern/high-tech places.
Oh and while we're still talking about difficulty, some of the puzzles make absolutely no sense. Not all, mind you, but some. For example the infamous coin puzzle in Aldwych level. This is the kind of obscurity you simply can't solve using standard logic. You're in an abandoned subway station, yet you have to 1. Turn on the light to find a coin (why can't Lara just use flares?) 2. Use a coin to get a ticket (people skip that part even when subway is working) 3. Use that ticket in a room hidden so well no regular person in real life would even think about going there (why Lara can't just jump over or crouch under the obstacle?). Horrible!
Also I really don't like the art direction. Some of the levels are superb (Jungle, South Pacific, Antarctica), but the rest is just oh so full of stretched textures, overly saturated lights and pitch black shadows. Oh and the PSX version is just too dark.
Ah and yeah, the save crystals. Honestly, there was a reason why they were removed in TR2. Bringing them back was only but a mistake, especially since the game had just oh so many ****y traps.
The story. It's just not there. I mean yeah, oh we have a meteorite thingy coming, they turned it into four artifact. Get them before anyone else does. Cool. And that's all. Even TR1 was more story driven and it was basically the same kind of stuff. TR3 doesn't really even explain how the artifacts managed to get to their resting places though. If you want to learn more, you have to check TRF or fanpages. It's just bad narrative.
Does this game even have tombs? As in, actual tombs with bodies or at least places where bodies were meant to be contained? Even TRAOD had one tomb. Can't remember any in TR3 though. Kinda weird that a TOMB Raider game does not have tombs.
Many will totally disagree with me on this one, but I don't even like the music. Yes, it has some absolutely superb tracks (like the main theme, "She's Cool" etc.), but most of the time you just hear short "danger" or "action" tracks that sound like a broken sound library. Also half of the soundtrack consists of recycled TR1-2 music. Honestly after two long games I am tired of yet another "Caves" track (and that sped up version was horrible).

That being said I understand this was the first game made by the new Core team. For a first game, it's actually not bad. The game is long, it has many unique levels and a lot of cool new stuff. I also really like what they did with the engine. TR3 Gold is the best example of just how powerful TR3 Engine was and how great TR3 could have been if it was given enough attention by an experienced TR team. It's a shame TR3 is not so popular when it comes to modding. But I assume that's because it is horribly hardcoded.

Stryke · 14-04-20, 11:54

I don't think TR3's traps were annoying at all or even hard. I just played through the entire thing myself since I could remember. It took me 13hrs.

Only parts I didn't like were the back tracking in a few levels. Although Aldwych I have to excuse. I thought the introduction could have been better. Something like TR2 where she approaches the Jungle.

13-04-20, 13:05	#3
ANoDE Golden Join Date: May 2005 Location: Austria Posts: 6,815	How dare you touch that masterpiece! Just kidding, you make a valid point there. TR3 can be an unforgiving and annoying annoying piece of ... gaming software. I don't even want to imagine playing it without save-anywhere feature. All in all I do love it though. __________________ ~ Die Welt? Ein Tor. Zu tausend Wüsten, stumm und kalt. ~

14-04-20, 11:12	#9
Caesum Tomb Raider Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Poland, Warsaw Gender: Male Posts: 12,064	Finally a thread this game deserves. Honestly, I know a lot of people love it, but omg I find this game even worse than TRAOD or TR5. Yes, it has some really cool locations, like first level of India, Aldwych, Coastal Village or Antarctica. But the entire rest of the game just screams horrible art direction and questionable design choices. I absolutely hate the ***y difficulty level of TR3 traps. I know people crave for hard games that are challenging, personally I think TR3 is not challenging in a logical kind of way. Most of its traps are basically hit and miss while reloading until you get it right eventually. The game's traps are unforgiving to the point of punishing you for not knowing something the game never gave you a hint about. I also really hate the design of some of the levels. TR3 is the definition of chaos. Most of the rooms just don't have any function apart from being an obstacle, the levels are not believable at all. It's just a maze of random rooms. While it's okay in jungle-like levels of India or South Pacific, it's just horrible in modern/high-tech places. Oh and while we're still talking about difficulty, some of the puzzles make absolutely no sense. Not all, mind you, but some. For example the infamous coin puzzle in Aldwych level. This is the kind of obscurity you simply can't solve using standard logic. You're in an abandoned subway station, yet you have to 1. Turn on the light to find a coin (why can't Lara just use flares?) 2. Use a coin to get a ticket (people skip that part even when subway is working) 3. Use that ticket in a room hidden so well no regular person in real life would even think about going there (why Lara can't just jump over or crouch under the obstacle?). Horrible! Also I really don't like the art direction. Some of the levels are superb (Jungle, South Pacific, Antarctica), but the rest is just oh so full of stretched textures, overly saturated lights and pitch black shadows. Oh and the PSX version is just too dark. Ah and yeah, the save crystals. Honestly, there was a reason why they were removed in TR2. Bringing them back was only but a mistake, especially since the game had just oh so many **y traps. The story. It's just not there. I mean yeah, oh we have a meteorite thingy coming, they turned it into four artifact. Get them before anyone else does. Cool. And that's all. Even TR1 was more story driven and it was basically the same kind of stuff. TR3 doesn't really even explain how the artifacts managed to get to their resting places though. If you want to learn more, you have to check TRF or fanpages. It's just bad narrative. Does this game even have tombs? As in, actual tombs with bodies or at least places where bodies were meant* to be contained? Even TRAOD had one tomb. Can't remember any in TR3 though. Kinda weird that a TOMB Raider game does not have tombs. Many will totally disagree with me on this one, but I don't even like the music. Yes, it has some absolutely superb tracks (like the main theme, "She's Cool" etc.), but most of the time you just hear short "danger" or "action" tracks that sound like a broken sound library. Also half of the soundtrack consists of recycled TR1-2 music. Honestly after two long games I am tired of yet another "Caves" track (and that sped up version was horrible). That being said I understand this was the first game made by the new Core team. For a first game, it's actually not bad. The game is long, it has many unique levels and a lot of cool new stuff. I also really like what they did with the engine. TR3 Gold is the best example of just how powerful TR3 Engine was and how great TR3 could have been if it was given enough attention by an experienced TR team. It's a shame TR3 is not so popular when it comes to modding. But I assume that's because it is horribly hardcoded. Last edited by Caesum; 14-04-20 at 11:25.

14-04-20, 07:51	#6
TR-Freak Unverified User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Deutschland Posts: 5,140	I replayed TR3 recently on PSX. And except for the Level Design I find the game quite okay. I didn't have problems with save crystals. saving once or twice in a level is already enough. What I didn't like was lots of the forced damege

14-04-20, 08:00	#7
Mek Historian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Poland, Warsaw Posts: 463	For me the game is too easy with unlimited saves and crystals restoring health on PC. This is the reason why I consider the save crystals on PS1 an advantage (although I haven't played the PS1 version yet as I've mentioned in my previous post so I don't know the exact experience that the save crystals give).

14-04-20, 11:54	#10
Stryke Historian Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 345	I don't think TR3's traps were annoying at all or even hard. I just played through the entire thing myself since I could remember. It took me 13hrs. Only parts I didn't like were the back tracking in a few levels. Although Aldwych I have to excuse. I thought the introduction could have been better. Something like TR2 where she approaches the Jungle.